Double standard on Sterlization

[Peppergirl]

I am cutting and pasting this story out of the 'abortion/fathers' thread, where I went off on a rant about how I was treated as a young mother who wanted her tubes tied.

All opinions welcome and encouraged:

Forgive me if this has already been posted, but I find it EXTREMELY ironic that women supposedly 'have control of their own bodies', but the VAST majority of them who consult a doctor about sterilization before the age of 30, are given a whole load of BULLSHIT about it by doctors.

But let a guy in his 20s, even VERY EARLY 20s, decide to get a vascectomy - no FUCKING PROBLEM in most cases. Makes me sick.

Sharing an EXTREMELY personal story:

Some of you know I have two boys. I am 40 and my boys are 22 and almost 19. I had them VERY young, obviously. I was married for nearly 15 years to the father of my second child. He is 2 years older than me.

When I was about 23 or 24, I became pregnant again. My kids were 6 and 4 and I was not happy because I knew I didn't want anymore. I could barely handle the two I had! For the record, I *was* using birth control with both my second and third pregnancies.

I was waffling, going back and forth on the issue of abortion. My now ex-husband didn't want anymore kids either, so we were really struggling with the decision.

Ultimately, the decision was made by someone other than us. I suffered a miscarriage in my second month. I was secretly relieved, because the decision had been taken care of. Sounds cold, but I knew I wasnt ready for more.

After I healed, I consulted my doctor about getting my tubes tied. I was 23 or 24 at the time, married with TWO kids and I knew I didn't want any more children. He refused...yes FUCKING REFUSED to do it, based upon my age!!

Yes, I switched doctors. Ultimately, it was easier to just have my ex husband (who was 25 or 26 at the time) get a vascectomy. No questions asked, of course.

Granted, this was in the early to mid 90s, but I'm appalled to see that apparently the double standard regarding sterilization is STILL alive and well by some physicians.

[Seshat]

(Thanks, Peppergirl.)


I gave up on getting sterilised. I have an IUD and "only" another decade or so to endure the bloody nuisance every month or so.


When I'm as treated as I can get for the fibro, I might have the energy to go fight the battle again. But I'm 40 - surely they can accept that if I wanted to have kids, I'd have had them by now!

[BlaqueKatt]

But I'm 40 - surely they can accept that if I wanted to have kids, I'd have had them by now!

Sadly with these 60+ year-old having babies now "because they never had time when they were younger", I don't think they'll accept it.

[blas87]

Don't even get me started.....I won't stop.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Same here. -.- Even with me nearing the big 30 soon, I'm still being patronised and treated like an ignorant child by the medical profession. I don't bloody want kids! Jeez, I can hold my cute, smiley niece and feel absolutely no maternal feelings at all, so I don't see why I can't have my tubes tied when a guy of the same age would have no problems at all getting the snip.

[pile of monkeys]

I switched doctors when my old one would even refuse to discuss the issue with me until- and I quote- I was "over thirty and had at least one child." The whole point of it was that I didn't want children! I still made her note in my record every year that I was inquiring about it. That same doctor also told me I'd change my mind, and my personal favorite: "Women were meant to have babies." I no longer trusted that person with my reproductive health, so I voted with my wallet (well, my insurance card), and went somewhere else.

My new doctor is not condescending, will discuss all options with me, and has mentioned he's impressed with the amount of research I've done. He's said many of the women who come into his office wanting help gettng pregnant haven't put as much thought into that as I have in wanting not to. I have, for now, chosen not to have the surgery for various medical and financial reasons (my insurance won't cover it unless it's done in conjunction with giving birth, otherwise it's considered "elective sugery"), but the option is open to me whenever I should choose to use it.

My counterarguments are now and always have been-
-Yes, getting your tubes tied is permanent. So is having a baby.
-Yes, I might regret it. I would more likely regret having a baby.
-I might change my mind. After weeks of lost sleep and months of trauma to my body, I might change my mind about wanting a baby.
-"Women were meant to have babies." If that's true, why are so many people seeking help for fertility problems? Those who want babies will take extreme measure to have them, why can't I take measures so I won't?
-You're not old enough to make that decision (no longer applies, but I heard it a lot back when). Tell that to the women aged 20-25 who are having babies. How come they're considered mature enough to make up their own minds and I'm not?
-What if you meet the perfect man and he wants children? If he wants children, he's not my perfect man. End of story. I also heard this after I was married, which I though was incredibly tactless and distasteful- like, "if your marriage fails, don't you want to keep your options open?" Um, no.

[blas87]

pileofmonkeys, my hat's off to you!

May I please borrow those witty and clever retorts you have for the doctors?

[Cat]

My counterarguments are now and always have been-
-Yes, getting your tubes tied is permanent. So is having a baby.
-Yes, I might regret it. I would more likely regret having a baby.
-I might change my mind. After weeks of lost sleep and months of trauma to my body, I might change my mind about wanting a baby.
-"Women were meant to have babies." If that's true, why are so many people seeking help for fertility problems? Those who want babies will take extreme measure to have them, why can't I take measures so I won't?
-You're not old enough to make that decision (no longer applies, but I heard it a lot back when). Tell that to the women aged 20-25 who are having babies. How come they're considered mature enough to make up their own minds and I'm not?
-What if you meet the perfect man and he wants children? If he wants children, he's not my perfect man. End of story. I also heard this after I was married, which I though was incredibly tactless and distasteful- like, "if your marriage fails, don't you want to keep your options open?" Um, no.

I think I love you I may have to "borrow" those comebacks as well

[Lyra]

Peppergirl said:

But let a guy in his 20s, even VERY EARLY 20s, decide to get a vascectomy - no FUCKING PROBLEM in most cases.

Ok, it's possible that things may have changed in 18 years, but when my brother was 21, he and his wife had already had two kids. It was about 6 months after their daughter was born, and he went to his Dr. about getting a vascectomy (sp?) since they'd had two kids in lest than two years, and neither of them wanted any more, let alone any more that soon.

He said it took him a couple of visits to convince the Dr. that this was what he wanted. What finally did it was the Dr. asking him "Well, what if your wife and kids were in a car accident and they all died? Wouldn't you want to have the option to have more children?"

First, my brother told him that was the STUPIDEST thing he'd ever heard someone say, let alone someone with an 'education'. Second, he said "Look--I didn't really want kids to begin with. We had two accidents. While I love them now, I don't WANT any more, and you can bet that if something happens to them, new kids aren't going to come near to replacing them. They aren't fucking puppies for Christ's sake!"

He was scheduled for his procedure the next week.

[blas87]

In cases like that, I'd give anything I own to be able to call a doctor full out in front of a crowded room on their stupidity and ignorance.

They really will come up with ANY kind of story or circumstance to get you to change your mind, won't they?

[Daskinor]

From what I know of the subject, I highly doubt its a sexist thing. More then a I don't want you to come back in 10 years and sue me. There where some high profile cases about 15-20 years ago. Il see if I can find any direct links to them somewhere. Gist of it is, the women claimed they where coerced in some way into getting the surgery. Both instances the husband was the one 'forcing' the woman into getting the surgery. And that the doctor should of known this etc....

Moral of the story, doctors wont touch it with a 10 foot pole unless they are sure it wont come back and bite them in the ass. Normally; life threatening issue if they become pregnant, have a life threatning genetic disorder that they don't want to be passed on, or already have kids and are over a set age, anywhere from 30 to 40. Some cases a doctors liability insurance set those rules for the procedure.

Also the surgery is not a 100%, more like 99.95. Also there is increased risk of atopic pregnancies.

[BlaqueKatt]

From what I know of the subject, I highly doubt its a sexist thing.

nope it IS sexist-as I have several males that I used to hang out with that had vasectomies at age 18-no kids doctors gave them ZERO grief, I have never heard of a woman not getting some kind of "well you might regret it" kind of speech.

If the males and females are not being treated equally that is the very definition of sexism.

Also there is increased risk of ectopic pregnancies.

nope decreased actually-
"If a pregnancy does occur after a tubal ligation, there is a 33% chance of it being an ectopic pregnancy. However, the overall rate of pregnancy is so low, that a woman’s chance of having an ectopic pregnancy is much lower than it would be provided she did not have the tubal ligation done in the first place."

Also the surgery is not a 100%, more like 99.95.

here's the stats from contraception.com

Tubal ligation is more than 99 percent effective in the first year. This means that that out of every 100 women who have this procedure done, less than one will become pregnant during the first year of use.

Up to one out of every 100 women will become pregnant in each subsequent year following the first year (when the procedure was done). This is due to a slight possibility that fallopian tubes may reconnect by themselves.

Of every 1,000 women who have undergone tubal ligation, approximately 18.5 will become pregnant within 10 years. These statistics were concluded by the U.S. Collaborative Review of Sterilization in their hallmark Crest study. However, depending on the method used and the age of the woman when she has the procedure done, this rate might be higher or lower.

[fireheart17]

I'll swing on both points here:

The "Don't come back in x number of years and sue me" argument: this can actually apply to both females and males. However, I think that there needs to be a very short cooling off period before the surgery goes ahead (about maybe 1 week rather than 10 years). I'll try and find the link, but I think that there is an option on both male and female sterilization that uses slightly different equipment, but also allows for reversal. (I think it's a coil or something that gets inserted in the Fallopian tubes)

The "if he wants kids, he's not my man" argument: good point on that one. However, both sides need to expressly point out why they do/don't want a child.

The double standard: another agreed point.

[tabbyblack13]

Not all doctors disagree to sterilize a woman. A coworker of mine is only in her mid-twenties with one very active and intelligent child with ADHD. She found a doctor to sterilize her especially after he meet the kid. After she becomes sterilized she will then have another necessary surgery that could have potentially sterilized her. Her doctors refused to do the necessary surgery and forced her to be on medications until she was 30 or older. She can't take the condition anymore due to the amount of pills and the symptoms.

Many doctors are afraid to do sterilizations for many reasons. Being sued is one of them but the doctor might be afraid that the woman really didn't want the procedure. She might have been pressured by others to go though this. I feel sorry for some of the doctors who have to go though this and are unsure if the woman truly wants this.

[Cats]

I can understand a doctor questioning a woman who wants it...after all, surgery always carries risks, and you really don't want the patient to come back and sue. You want to be sure the woman wants it and understands all that comes with it. Questioning to make sure the woman is aware of the consequences before going on with it is okay, it is a big life decision.

However, the "You're not old enough to decide you don't want kids" argument is UTTER BULLSHIT. What, you're telling me*, at age 25, I'm old and responsible enough to have decided to get pregnant, pop out a few kids, planned to care for them a minimum of 18 years apiece, take time off from work or life to care for them when sick, spent money on things they need, and keep them out of trouble, but I'm not old enough to handle the responsibility of making the decision NOT to have that? WTF?

Trying to figure out if your patient is ready for it is one thing. Trying to talk them out of it and refuse is another, especially when your counter arguments suck.

My parents (who wanted children and got them) and my brother (who has 2 newborns and wants one more later) all completely understand that some people just don't want to have children. They find it not much different that some people are cat lovers and some are not (heck, I love my kitties but my dad could pretty much care less about them). Now why the hell can't some doctors understand that?

One of my co-workers (she's 40 years older than me) that I'm semi close with has often told me a story about one of her daughters, who knew all along she didn't have kids. She eneded up getting pregnant several times (and NOT for lack of using birth control) and several abortions because docs would adamantly refuse to tie her tubes. I can't remember if they did in the end or not (I think she would be in her 40's by now), but yeah, way to go docs, we all know a woman who gets several abortions is one who wants to have kids....




*for the record, I'm a virgin who's been kissed like, 3 times in life. I'm not reflecting on any personal experience with getting sterlized here. As much as I don't want kids, I have like the most perfectly functioning reproductive system that has been like clockwork since literally day 1 that gives me no trouble, and I don't wanna mess with that. So while I probably wouldn't actually ask about getting my tubes tied, a doc shouldn't tell me I can't if that's what I want.