The OTHER government body that likes to tear families apart....

[Daskinor]

What the ever loving hell is going on in this thread.......

Stop it with these bias blog posts as news stuff. Anita Vasquez was tired and found guilty in a trial of her peers. Their defense with the HPV vaccine was basically laughed out of court.

The baby was admitted to the hospital with low sodium in her system multiple times. Meaning she was being fed water, not enough milk or formula. Hospital staff testified that she did not breast feed and the formula appeared to be watery. The experts testified in the 100 or so cases of infants getting the vaccine, nothing like this has ever happened.

When in the grandparents care she got noticeably and quantifiable - better.

All this ignored evidence by CPS is a fabrication. This went to jury trial, CPS acted on a report from a hospital, after they noticed a pattern that showed abuse.

Also HEMI6point1, moving the goalposts with another conspiracy theory is not any sort of evidence. First off the hospital did not give the gardasil vac, it was her pediatrician. The Infant, and her 13 year old son were being seen at the same time. And gardasil, is not prescribed to infants in the first place. There is no reason the hospital would need to cover it up.

Also gardasil is quite safe. Most of the reported 'major adverse reactions' fall within the statistical range for developing a serious medical issue. /

As for the Alabama case. I can not find a collaborating new story, or even a source in the article. And its filled with gems like.

Ericka Lawery has alleged that Chelsea has “severe mental illness.” However, the only mental health diagnoses that Chelsea says that she has ever had were Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and anxiety. These are conditions which might be expected in a survivor of human trafficking. How cruel is it to weaponize such a diagnosis against her and punish the victim that the Child Protective system was charged with helping?

First off, Chelsea says she does not have a major mental disorder just PTSD. Because PTSD is not major at all! Short answer it is. Also if the age of majority for alabama is 19, and she is 18. She still is in CPS custody no matter how much the article tries to dilute the impact of that. Note she is 19 now, but the baby was born when she was 18. And of course the very one sided nature of these articles, from only the parents PoV makes every staement suspect.

While I can't find any data to support this, based on what I know of hospital procedures. And the language the hospital staff used when they took the child. Its the kind of excuse you give when the baby tests for an illegal substance.

Anyway, according to the https://www.gofundme.com/bring-kason-stokes-home they have visitation. The last update makes me feel like they got their son back.

[HEMI6point1]

Also HEMI6point1, moving the goalposts with another conspiracy theory is not any sort of evidence. First off the hospital did not give the gardasil vac, it was her pediatrician. The Infant, and her 13 year old son were being seen at the same time. And gardasil, is not prescribed to infants in the first place. There is no reason the hospital would need to cover it up.

The article clearly states that the gardasil vaccine was given to her daughter by mistake at the hands of the doctor that was doing it. It was intended for her 13 year old son. By the way, if this woman was such a bad mother to her infant daughter, why was she allowed to keep her sons?

By the way, I have done a little bit of reading up on parents accused of "Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy." Parents who accuse doctors of malpractice or mistakes that cause their children problems are being betrayed by hospitals who accuse them of MSBP and sic CPS on them rather than own up to their fuckups. It's a widespread trend that is sadly more common than you think.

First off, Chelsea says she does not have a major mental disorder just PTSD. Because PTSD is not major at all! Short answer it is. Also if the age of majority for alabama is 19, and she is 18. She still is in CPS custody no matter how much the article tries to dilute the impact of that. Note she is 19 now, but the baby was born when she was 18. And of course the very one sided nature of these articles, from only the parents PoV makes every staement suspect.

While I can't find any data to support this, based on what I know of hospital procedures. And the language the hospital staff used when they took the child. Its the kind of excuse you give when the baby tests for an illegal substance.

One of the justifications for taking the baby was that the mother failed to register the impending childbirth with CPS.

I can tell you that if my significant other was told she needed to register her impending childbirth with CPS I would laugh in their face and tell them no.... followed by "Kiss My Ass." The only thing you're required to do in life is die and pay taxes. CPS can go fuck off and drop off a cliff.

Also, PTSD does not automatically mean you are going to be a bad parent. If the case worker seriously used that to drum up "mental illness" to help her case then she's a cunt that needs to be knocked into next week!

While I can't find any data to support this, based on what I know of hospital procedures. And the language the hospital staff used when they took the child. Its the kind of excuse you give when the baby tests for an illegal substance.

Are you referring to the part of the article when a nurse said to the mother that she is taking the baby for an "assessment" and never came back? To be honest, I did have that initial thought; maybe the kid tested positive for drugs? I'm no medical expert, but if that was the case doesn't the hospital have a duty to tell the mother that the baby tested positive for something? Why be so secretive?

[Daskinor]

The article clearly states that the gardasil vaccine was given to her daughter by mistake at the hands of the doctor that was doing it. It was intended for her 13 year old son. By the way, if this woman was such a bad mother to her infant daughter, why was she allowed to keep her sons?

By the way, I have done a little bit of reading up on parents accused of "Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy." Parents who accuse doctors of malpractice or mistakes that cause their children problems are being betrayed by hospitals who accuse them of MSBP and sic CPS on them rather than own up to their fuckups. It's a widespread trend that is sadly more common than you think.

I will blame the article for this misconception. Because it does a good job trying to confuse the two issues.

Issue 1- The infant was given the gardasil vaccine by Doctor "A's" office.

Issue 2- The infant later was admitted to the hospital and diagnosed with low sodium (fed water). This occurred a few times and over these vists the infant was seen my doctors B, C ,D and E. Until Doctor F made the judgment call to contact CPS due to suspected abuse. No different then the child that comes in every week with a fresh injury.

The problem with the malpractice claim is that the hospital did not do anything that constituted malpractice. The only doctor who did was "DR A" who had no relation with the hospital doctors, and in the end I suspect that was a mistake a nurse made when prepping the vaccines to be administered.

The reason "Dr A" is dragged into this at all is that the parents are blaming the gardasil for the baby's symptoms after the hospital reported them to CPS.

Remember this went to a jury trial as well. The jury rejected the gardasil defense, and in the end the child was placed with the grandparents.

HEMI6point1 this site is going to aggravate you because I think your predisposed to believe their bias. The Texas case is the most glaring case of bias because it went to court and so allot of the case info can be publicly viewed.

"Medicalkidnap.com" went out of their way to suggest that gardasil vaccine presented in the infant in a unique way. That CPS ignored that possibility because they where conspiring with the hospital to cover up a malpractice case the hospital itself was not involved in.

The hospital believed it was a case of "Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy" and reported that to CPS. Reading third party reports about the case. I highly suspect that the belief of CPS was that the mother was keeping the baby sick for a payout.

If the baby was sick long term after the gardasil vaccine they could try and sue for damages. Of the 100 or so infants to mistakenly receive the vaccine, the worst was fussiness and a small fever. In fact the reason why they don't recommend the gardasil vaccine until the child is older, until right before they are sexually active. Is because gardasil requires boosters every 6 years so it simply be unnecessary, not dangerous.

Whats more likely, vast conspiracy by doctors to cover a child receiving an unnecessary vaccination that is not dangerous. Or a parent edging for a payout and getting caught.

Either way the site does not report the facts, they simply reports a bias. And I think its one you already find easy to believe.

I was going to comment more on the Alabama case, but I cut it out. Its the same problem, the article has a large bias and lots of contradictions. But I don't know what truth is in there, because there is not collaborating articles for me to look at to try and figure out what the facts of the case are. And its a moot point, I think they have already gotten the child back.

[HEMI6point1]

Going to have to find another source on this next one but until then....

Mistake leads to CPS taking away couple's kids.

Doesn't CPS realize that shit like this is going to make parents scared to death to bring kids to the ER?

[Daskinor]

I would;

However, there are medical studies that have concluded that short falls can cause injury, up to and including fatal head injuries. According to a study published in the American Journal of Forensic Medical Pathology:

The author concludes that an infant or child may suffer a fatal head injury from a fall of less than 3 meters (10 feet). (Source.)

If you read said paper the youngest person used was 12 months not 6 weeks.

Chris Van Ee, PhD, points out that babies who are shaken violently enough to cause brain hemorrhaging would be “expected” to have neck injuries. (Source.)

Linked paper was trying to say that a 2008 incident was not shaken baby. Either the child fell or his head was forced against a wall. Hard to tell the difference. No bearing on the argument in play here.

Camden doesn’t. Nor do any other children whose parents have been suspected of Shaken Baby Syndrome or Abusive Head Trauma that Health Impact News has covered.

This is the first mention of SBS in the entire article. Its like the author went out of their way to fabricate a straw-man.

This is not uncommon. They were almost 2 1/2 months premature. It is well established within the medical literature that brain bleeds are quite common in premature babies.

However article does not mention the babies were treated for IVH.

Camden’s medical records show that he was low in Vitamin D, which can contribute to subdural hematoma. He also had anemia of prematurity.

Both Camden and his fraternal twin brother, Noah, spent a month and a half in the NICU. The babies had some brain bleeding from birth.

Oh there we go. Not sure if the person is just bad at writing 'news' or tired to bury this info.

See:

Common Childbirth Practice Could Lead to Later False Diagnosis of Shaken Baby Syndrome

Links to own article as proof. Not only is that not count as a reference, should of linked to the info used to prepare the article. It is just tacky. Also the linked article is so fucking wrong.... sigh.

To date, no doctor or investigator has compared scans from Camden’s prior brain bleeding to those following his fall off of the bed, though it would seem a prudent course of action.

Yes because NICU babies are sent home regularly with still occurring hematoma. Also IVH looks allot different then bleed from a fall.

There are over 2 million cases of subdural hematomas, or brain bleeding, in newborns within the United States each year. AAP policy says that all 2 million cases resolve on their own by the time babies are 5 to 8-weeks-old. Any bleeding after that point must by default be due to violent child abuse or to serious trauma such as a car accident.

Really this does not get a link?

See Dr. Gabaeff’s study:

Investigating the possibility and probability of perinatal subdural hematoma progressing to chronic subdural hematoma, with and without complications, in neonates, and its potential relationship to the misdiagnosis of abusive head trauma

Ok I read some most of it. Also the "study" is actually an article pointing at issues they found with another study. In the scientific world this would be the jumping of point to get someone to fund an actual study to research this issue.

From the abstract;

The article argues that a small percentage, but significant number of neonates, suffer birth related complications and findings secondary to the development of chronic subdural hematoma CSDH) that are often misdiagnosed as abusive head trauma.

From the Conclusion;

When there is no trauma, but caregivers report a prodrome of illness that can result in hemorrhage, the illness is often dismissed. If blood, either SDH or SAH, is present AHT is highly likely to be diagnosed. The hygroma from PSDH then too can “become” an alleged prior abusive act that “caused” the CSDH.

Yea the paper is about non trauma events being misdiagnosed as trauma. There was a trauma event. Its not an accurate comparison. Nor is the "Study" a study in scientific terms. Its basically a doctor going, I disagree with this and why.

I could go on, but the article relies heavily on a cherry picked "study" from 2008 to validate their point of view. And present it like everyone else in the medical community is wrong because they did not agree with that one doctor. Reminds me allot of "sovereign citizen" arguments. I found that 1 doctor that agrees with me, screw the 1000 others who don't.

From an outside point of view, the necrotizing enterocolitis and the fall. Make me think the rational is not, trying to kidnap the children because 'reasons'. But there is a really good chance that the parents are overwhelmed and simply have trouble caring for 2 infants and and 2 older children. Not abuse in the way we see it, violence. But simply unintentional neglect.

They go out of there way to show that the parents are overworked and having difficulties as a excuse for the fall. What if in reality it is as simple as that, overworked, tired, overwhelmed.

In the end I don't know for sure. But its an alternative point of view that fits the info given. And does not increase to the level of a conspiracy theory.

The fact the the children were simply placed with family. Instead of being adopted out for money also seems to contradict the original premise of the thread.

[HEMI6point1]

From an outside point of view, the necrotizing enterocolitis and the fall. Make me think the rational is not, trying to kidnap the children because 'reasons'. But there is a really good chance that the parents are overwhelmed and simply have trouble caring for 2 infants and and 2 older children. Not abuse in the way we see it, violence. But simply unintentional neglect.

They go out of there way to show that the parents are overworked and having difficulties as a excuse for the fall. What if in reality it is as simple as that, overworked, tired, overwhelmed.

Um, are you seriously saying that parents who get "overwhelmed" should be looked at by CPS as a sign of "neglect?" If so then every parent is guilty then.

BTW, I saw this on what you can consider a "legit" news source: Another reason CPS is looked at in a bad light.

Don't people realize that sticking your nose where it doesn't belong can sometimes ruin lives?

[s_stabeler]

When the parent being overwhelmed means the kid suffers for it, yes.

[HEMI6point1]

When the parent being overwhelmed means the kid suffers for it, yes.

Wow lots of CPS apologists in this thread! Legit abuse is one thing, but if the kid is not being abused how about CPS butt out and let parents raise their kids the way they need to raise them, not how some piece of crap social worker feels they should be.

BTW, here is an interesting thread on Quora: Can CPS be sic'ed on a parent for not making a child take Ritalin?

Teachers insist on parents making their children take medications because they want the kids zonked out to make their jobs easier. If a teacher told me that my child needed to be on Ritalin I would tell him/her to go pound sand, I'm not making my kid a zombie just because you want to make your job easier.

[Daskinor]

Um, are you seriously saying that parents who get "overwhelmed" should be looked at by CPS as a sign of "neglect?" If so then every parent is guilty then.

Yes if the situation results in repeated harm to the child.

BTW, I saw this on what you can consider a "legit" news source: Another reason CPS is looked at in a bad light.

CPS respond to a report, they supposed to have psionic powers to read minds, to know if a report is genuine or not? Also its an editorial not a news report.

Wow lots of CPS apologists in this thread! Legit abuse is one thing, but if the kid is not being abused how about CPS butt out and let parents raise their kids the way they need to raise them, not how some piece of crap social worker feels they should be.

Abuse, Endangerment and Neglect are all different things but are responded to the same way. I guess you never have seen any truly horrendous abuse that CPS uncovered. That the whole system needs to be scraped because a few cases come to light that when looked at from once side can be framed as a miscarriage of justice. Or that the only parents that can do wrong, are these caricatures of normal people an other of sorts. I can assure you, even the most noble of us can perform the darkest of deeds against the most innocent of us.

BTW, here is an interesting thread on Quora: Can CPS be sic'ed on a parent for not making a child take Ritalin?

Yes, if a child has an official diagnosis and the parents refuse treatment. Just because it ADHD does not mean you get to ignore that fact. No different then if it was a bipolar diagnosis, or even cancer. It becomes extra problematic because the school can reassign the child to a special education curriculum or expel them if they are not treated, depending on the state and county. Would you be mad at CPS if they removed a sick child because their parents believed in spiritual healing only?

[HEMI6point1]

Yes, if a child has an official diagnosis and the parents refuse treatment. Just because it ADHD does not mean you get to ignore that fact.

Wow. So by your standard CPS should take a child because his/her parents don't want to make them a zombie to make their teacher's lives easier?

FWIW, I was one of those kids where a teacher was insisting on putting me on meds for ADD when I was 12 or 13. My mother caved and put me on some drug (Wasn't Ritalin, it was something else). I was lethargic, tired and wanted to go to sleep by 7PM each night, and easily confused. The last straw was hearing that a side effect could be liver failure. My mother took me off the meds and I was back to being my normal self. Guess what? No harm befell me and I did fine.

[s_stabeler]

um, I think I should just point out that those can also be symptoms of "being a teenager."

Also, liver failure being a side effect just means it's physically possible. In the case of ADHD medication, it generally means the liver was already weak.

Also he was talking about an official diagnosis- not a teacher deciding that someone should be "made a zombie" to make the teacher's life easier but a diagnosis by an actual expert who knows what they are talking about.

[Daskinor]

Also he was talking about an official diagnosis- not a teacher deciding that someone should be "made a zombie" to make the teacher's life easier but a diagnosis by an actual expert who knows what they are talking about.

It generally works like this. Your mileage may very.

-Your child is disruptive in class, here is an improvement plan we would like you to reinforce at home.

-Your child is still disruptive in class, we need to address this

-Your child has exhausted all chances at improvement or crossed a line. We will move him to a special education classroom or remove him from the school. You can take him to a child behavior specialist, if we can get a treatment plan we will allow him to stay in his current classroom.

-You are not following the treatment plan.....

of course these are very truncated examples of discussions.



HEMI6point1 you were probably on guanfacine. Most ADHD meds are stimulants. The excessive tiredness is a side effect when you take guanfacine with high fat foods. Guanfacine is not known for causing liver damage. People who take guanfacine with liver issues can have complications.

[HEMI6point1]

I think it was Clonidine, now that I remember.

BTW, in keeping with the nature of this thread, here is a news story on CPS once again acting like cunts:

CPS takes child for wanting a 2nd opinion

Surgery is serious stuff, and there should be nothing wrong with the parents wanting a 2nd opinion. Thank goodness the parents videotaped the child's mafia-style removal so show how CPS really acts.

BTW, they did get their kid back (See here) but CPS has insisted they monitor the child's health. WTF? Stay out of the family's life, CPS!

[Daskinor]

Seriously Clonidine! Fuck that shit. Requires way to much back and forth blood work to make sure you have the correct dosage. Sounds like you had to much. Usually with that stuff its if you have any side effects come back and we will adjust the dosage. And somehow passing out at 7pm is a side effect was not communicated well.


As for the you tube video. The whole point where this goes south is here....

Anna argued with doctors about getting a second opinion. Without a proper discharge, she finally took Sammy out of the hospital to get a second opinion at Kaiser Permanente.

"The police showed up there. They saw that the baby was fine," Anna said. "They told us that Sutter was telling them so much bad stuff that they thought that this baby is dying on our arms."

Basically she just walked out of the hospital with the child. Not a good idea. I can not tell what the conversation or the linchpin of the parents decision was. She is entitled to a second opinion but that can be done at the hospital. This was most likely a breakdown of communication on the hospitals end. All these things happening at once probably overloaded her. Having Kaiser Permanente as their insurance did not help matters (fuck those guys) because of their asinine rules.

Past that, once the wheels of bureaucracy start its a hard ride to get off. It's hard to tell if the police who first showed up at the doctors followed up with CPS in a timely matter. If the issue ever got resolved correctly on the hospitals end. Or if the child ever got discharged properly from the hospital.

There is this understanding that you do not get to do anything you want with your child. But where the line is for what you can and can not do is not easy to place. This might be hard to believe, but in most states if a child is admitted to the hospital. You can not legally remove the child without said child being discharged. The hospital and by extension the doctors cannot do anything without your consent (unless the child is coding, saving life in the moment trumps consent). But they cannot release the child unless its into different medical care or the child is considered stable.

Without more data, I am going to place the blame on the hospital over CPS. There had to be a breakdown of communication on the hospitals end about what her rights were. Then when she took the child, mandatory responses occurred.

[Tama]

Seriously Clonidine! Fuck that shit.

I was prescribed Clonidine as a young teenager because I mentioned I had insomnia.

It worked, alright...all night, and I was constantly tired the next day. Only took it once, that was enough.