Kansas Doctor Shot

[Flyndaran]

He also performed abortions on fetuses who had issues that would severely lower their quality of life, and in situations where the mother would have severe health damage if she delivered. But hey, one can always get a kidney transplant - that's not a good excuse for killing a baaaby! (/sarcasm)

No one has to defend their inalienable rights to anyone.
And the right to medical care including abortions is a right.

Wait. Which side is your sarcasm directed?

Despite being pro-choice, I can see their viewpoint of killing people they see as murderers of what they consider babies.
Same way that anti-abortionists can be pro-death penalty.

[Sylvia727]

I thought pro-lifers were supposed to be about valuing the sanctity of life. You can't call yourself a pro-lifer while you go out and kill somebody because you deem them to be an "evil murderer".

And this is why I hesitate to identity myself as pro-life -- because I always need to clarify that I actually am in favor of life and don't harass abortionists or vandalize PP clinics. I wish these guys would stop calling themselves "pro-life" and call themselves "anti-abortion" or another label that accurately describes themselves. That way me and the other 90% of pro-lifers who are considerate and working for constructive solutions don't have to wade through all their crap.

[Lachrymose]

I wish these guys would stop calling themselves "pro-life" and call themselves "anti-abortion" or another label that accurately describes themselves.

Yup, this.

Besides it's 100% possible to be pro-life and pro-choice simultaneously, which a lot of people don't seem to understand.

[tabbyblack13]

One of his patience wrote a letter to the US President about why she had a late term abortion. It was due to a birth defect that left the child without the majority of its brain and top part of the skull. She was basically a life support system for the child. He spared her the heartache of being forced to carry the child to term only to deliver a dead child. The sad thing both her and her husband wanted the baby.

If an anti-abortionist believe that they are doing good then they need to read her letter.

I don't like abortion but I cannot force someone to live by ways. I will state that I am pro-education.

[Slytovhand]

I'll reiterate my question - what proof is there that this doctor's murder had anything to do with his profession, and wasn't a more personal vendetta?

[AdminAssistant]

http://www.kansas.com/946/story/834448.html

Here's an article that details more about Scott Roeder. While he wasn't directly affiliated with any particular group, he was strongly anti-abortion.

The Wichita paper has an entire special section on Tiller: http://www.kansas.com/tiller/

I've been trying to find Operation Rescue's quote that they were sad he died before he made peace with his soul or some nonsense, but to no avail.

[Slytovhand]

Thanks AA.

[Estil]

While I join the rest of the pro-life community and condemn this murder (not only does it only hurt our cause, but if anything it helps the other side more), I do want to make one thing absoultely clear. This (or any others that do abortions) "doctor" does not deserve the title "doctor" at all. REAL doctors are those that treat people that are sick or hurt and help them get well again (if they can get well again) and in fact take an oath after graduating medical school to "do no harm". An abortionist's job is to DESTROY life, plain and simple. That's no "doctor" to me.

[AdminAssistant]

Dr. Tiller was conferred the title by a medical school. Despite what he chose to do with it, he is still a MD. When I get my Ph.D., even if I decide to never be a professor, I will still style myself as Dr. AdminAssistant.

Dr. Tiller provided health care to women. The vast majority of late-term abortions are situations when the mother's life is at risk or there is some kind of deformity...something like that. If you want to ban abortion, then you need to set up a stand to sell coat hangers because desperate women will do what they need to do.

The Hippocratic oath is no more legally binding to the medical profession than Aristotle's Poetics are to the theatre profession.

[BroomJockey]

This (or any others that do abortions) "doctor" does not deserve the title "doctor" at all. REAL doctors are those that treat people that are sick or hurt and help them get well again (if they can get well again)

So, you're against self-defence, then, obviously. Since you value all life, you wouldn't protect someone who *will* die at the hands of an attacker. Because that's the kind of abortions this doctor did. Medically necessary ones where the baby was an attacker, with a knife at the point of the mother's throat. He may have done others, but he *was* saving lives.

Also, I assume you're doing your part to adopt children given up by women who didn't have an abortion, but couldn't support their child, right? Foster care, etc.? Because if you don't want the foetuses aborted, you're going to do your part to ensure they have a quality of life above the poverty line?

[guywithashovel]

If you want to ban abortion, then you need to set up a stand to sell coat hangers because desperate women will do what they need to do.

I hear renditions of this argument when abortion is being discussed, and it's really not a very good argument.

Basically, it's saying, "It should be legal because people are going to do it anyway." I don't think that's a very good way to make a case for why something should be legal. Anytime something is illegal, people are going to do it anyway, but that doesn't mean it should be legal.

I'm not saying abortion SHOULD be illegal. I just don't think this is a very good way to make the case.

[Nyoibo]

Legalizing something has the advantage of then being able to regulate it, back alley abortions there is no standard of hygene, training or qualifications or follow up care, legalized there are enforceable standards with practitioners registered so they can be monitored. It's the same idea with legalizing prostitution.

[Flyndaran]

I'm 100% pro-choice but I also think the they're gonna' do it anyway is a rather lame reason.
People are going to do a lot of illegal things, so why don't we get rid of all laws?
Though I think laws should only exist to really help society and defend personal liberty with an emphasis on the latter.
I prefer small government to get out my personal life and moral decisions.
Abortion is a personal life moral decision.

[Boozy]

I'm 100% pro-choice but I also think the they're gonna' do it anyway is a rather lame reason.
People are going to do a lot of illegal things, so why don't we get rid of all laws?

I generally agree with you. I've said this before in other threads, since this argument has also been applied to topics such as the legalization of drugs and gun control. In priniciple, laws represent our values as a society. We don't generally toss out laws that are difficult to enforce. There's never been a law passed that hasn't been broken, but we don't throw up our hands and declare anarchy.

However -- it's always important to look at the negative effects of laws. Sometimes a law will harm more people than it's supposed to protect. Sometimes the cost of enforcing it is just too high. I'm not saying that necessarily the case with abortion, but I also don't think that we can deal too much in absolutes. In principle, I agree with Flyn. But in practice, we need to look at both sides.

[Nyoibo]

There's a difference between legalizing something and getting rid of laws.