Asking Her Father Before Proposing

[kiwi]

My dad, any dad (if there is a dad in the picture), should have that respect. Should have a man say, ,"I love your daughter.

I guess thats my problem with it, it harks back to when you actually had to have the fathers permisson because the daughter was a posession of the father and he had the legal right to deny her.

Why is it just the father, why not both parents?

I dont have my father in the picture, but if lets say I did. If K only asked him for permission, and didn't ask my mother I would say no. I want to marry someone who values my mothers blessing just as much.

but I freely admit that I have a major problem with most of the BS "traditional" customs becuase of their origins in male dominance over the female counterparts.

[AdminAssistant]

Well, whoever the lucky future Mr. Admin is, he'd have to talk to both - but my mother would be so thrilled I'm getting married that she'd give her blessing to anyone. Dad...he would only be concerned with whether or not he could take care of "Daddy's Little Girl", even though I'm waaaayyy past the point of needing to be taken care of. More like a, "You have a job? You're not a shiftless bum? You make her happy? Knock yourself out, I'll help you buy a house if you'll elope. By the way, if you make her cry, I'll make YOU cry" Something like that.

ETA: Speaking of wedding traditions, and granted this is far far far in the future, I've been mulling ways to recognize my grandparents, especially if whoever I marry has living grandparents. (Grandparents are usually seated at the beginning of the ceremony, before parents, at least at any wedding I've been to). All of mine have passed away. I've thought about my 4 aunts standing at the edge of the aisle, each carrying a flower (4 flowers, 4 grandparents), and then as I passed, adding them to the bouquet. Something like that....hm.

[Boozy]

If the woman has a poor relationship with the dad, I could see where this would be innappropriate, but breaking up with a man because he had the audacity to respect your parents makes no sense and to me, shows a lack of maturity.

I wouldn't say that breaking up with someone who holds entirely different beliefs from yours shows a lack of maturity.

If my husband had asked my dad for my hand, I wouldn't have accepted his proposal. It would have shown that he had a complete and utter lack of understanding for who I am and what I believe. How could I have married someone if he didn't "get me" as a person?

You may disagree with that viewpoint, but you can't say that breaking up with someone for holding different core values is immature. In fact, I think it shows a sense of self.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

If my husband had asked my dad for my hand, I wouldn't have accepted his proposal. It would have shown that he had a complete and utter lack of understanding for who I am and what I believe. How could I have married someone if he didn't "get me" as a person?

lf.

Well, of course, I am assuming that the husband to be knows who you are. If he knows that you would object to such a thing and then did it anyways, yeah, you'd be right to write him off. You don't want to marry a man who does not respect your express wishes.

But in general, I think people try to put an agenda into such things. Sometimes, you just have to look at things at face value. The whole wedding thing is terribly sexist, all the traditions harken back to a time when women were property and virginity was the deal breaker. Now, though, it can just be a beautiful merging of families and a nod to tradition.

BTW, my husband not only asked my father for his blessing, but he took my mom to lunch and expressed his intentions to her, too.

[Sylvia727]

I don't think it's very "fortunate" that you don't have a father, but hey, that's just me.

My bio-dad was in and out of my life as a child. He was...not a very nice person, to put it mildly. I disowned him when I reached adulthood. I'm better off without him. I've talked to some other children of single mothers, and they've expressed desire to have their fathers in their lives, and one was pretty torn up that her father chose to be with his legitimate children but not with her. So I know that in some cases not having a father is unfortunate. For me, and with my particular bio-dad, I'm fortunate not to have him in my life any longer. It wasn't meant as a generalization. Sorry about the confusion.

Western weddings are deeply rooted in sexism. The man was acquiring a concubine/incubater, and the woman was acquiring her only means of support. After the sucesses of feminism, and the rising number of double income families, marriages are starting to be more partnership and less ownership. Some traditions will be updated, such as giving notice to the parents instead of asking permission from the father. Some traditions will die away completely, like the symbolism of a white dress.

I just noticed that the thread title is "Asking Her Father Before Proposing". And my answer to that is Hell No. If my significant other wants to ask my mother first, he'd better be asking her to marry him instead. If he wants me to be the one who lives with him, who loves and holds and cherishes him, then he'd better get my consent first. Actually, mine is the only consent he needs, but if it would make him more comfortable to phrase that conversation as "asking for permission", then whatever floats his boat. Just as long as he understands that he's not really waiting on permission, but only giving notice.

Something interesting I just thought of: when my grandparents were married, in 1963(?), his father had to sign the marriage license but not hers. Because they were both eighteen, but they lived in different states. Her state allowed eighteen-year-olds to get married without parental consent, but his didn't. So it was almost like she asked his parents for permission.

Any guys have any thoughts on this thread? I'm smelling a lot of estrogen in here.

[Rapscallion]

I'm probably the wrong guy to chip in on this, since I consider romance to be a very amusing spectator sport, but I've got two observations.

A mate of mine at work is a Sikh. His was an arranged marriage, and he's arranged marriages for others. He's going to arrange marriages for his sons. However, he was talking about it the other day, and he said that there's going to be some give and take for his sons and others of their generation. There will still be arrangements, but there will be input from those involved, or something like that - since they're living in this country. The full details have yet to be sorted out. The things that strikes me from this is that firstly both sons and daughters do as they're told, and secondly it's a cultural thing - and as such it's going to take a lot of time for any alterations to happen. There's no way we can predict now what the eventual outcome will be.

The other thing I get from this thread is fairly simple. Proof that men have no chance.

See, when a man says that he doesn't understand women, there will usually be a large number of women saying that they don't either, but there's always going to be a larger number of women saying it's easy enough to understand, and their explanation will be that the man should agree with them. Unfortunately, what happens with the women who are saying this is that they don't agree, so the men get more confused.

Men, however, are as Jester often says, stupid. A sensible man would get together a questionnaire of his intended love's preferences in all regards and memorise it, plus making several copies kept in safe places around the world, and then work by it. Most men just end up wondering what the hell's going on, then get back to the sports results/flashy exploding pixels on the screen.

I don't consider myself more intelligent than other men for staying out of romance. It doesn't exactly get my duck sicked, for example. However, I consider myself amused, and I don't have to try and work out the mind games. If anyone's tried those on me to see if I'm interested, I simply haven't noticed. I've had the odd suspicion well after the fact, but that's all.

Life is simple.

Rapscallion

[AFPheonix]

^^ it's crazy, almost as if women are, like, individuals. Whoa.

Me personally, I'm wired more like a guy. I'm pretty low-maintenance.

[IDrinkaRum]

If some haven't guessed by now, I wouldn't have a relationship with my mom if it wasn't for my Dad and Child Rum.

Besides, I know my dad is an "old fashioned" type of guy. My husband wasn't asking for "permission" to marry me. He was letting my dad know, man to man, that he loved me and wanted me to be with him for the rest of his life.

I did clue my mom in on why I wanted Mr. Rum & Daddy Rum to have man-to-man time though.

[DesignFox]

Nobody honestly thinks a dad owns his adult daughter. It's a show of respect, and a nod to tradition, that's all. It is a good way to show the inlaws that the potential husband has good intentions and to win brownie points.

If the woman has a poor relationship with the dad, I could see where this would be innappropriate, but breaking up with a man because he had the audacity to respect your parents makes no sense and to me, shows a lack of maturity.

Regardless of what you think, your fiance will be marrying your entire family. It would make both your lives a lot smoother if you start out in a respectful manner.

I second the sentiment, I just couldn't think of good words to put it in, so I'm stealing RK's.

Well, of course, I am assuming that the husband to be knows who you are. If he knows that you would object to such a thing and then did it anyways, yeah, you'd be right to write him off. You don't want to marry a man who does not respect your express wishes.

But in general, I think people try to put an agenda into such things. Sometimes, you just have to look at things at face value. The whole wedding thing is terribly sexist, all the traditions harken back to a time when women were property and virginity was the deal breaker. Now, though, it can just be a beautiful merging of families and a nod to tradition.

<snip>

Double ditto! If you really love a guy enough to consider marrying him, I think it's extremely callous to write him off just because he tried to do what he thought was proper. I suspect that any guy who knows or cares about his girl would know better than to seriously consider her as property and treat the "talk with Dad" as such, anyway...unless both are from a background of that nature...

I really think people take everything far too seriously.

Then again, I think I'd be thrilled if Mr. Right wanted to marry me. So, it wouldn't make a difference to me whether he talked to my Dad about it first or not. I wouldn't be with a guy who I suspected thought of me as property, so if he's talking to my Dad about it, to me it wouldn't be an attempt to seek "permission"...more of a "Hey, I love your daughter...this is my intention...I'd love if you approve..do you think she'll say yes?"

But I guess I just interpret things differently. Coming from someone who can sound cranky feminist at times, I guess that might sound surprising.

Not that it has any bearing on my current life situation.
*sigh*

[Slytovhand]

While I'd really love to ditto Raps, I'm more of the "If I need to keep a list of what her preferences are to appease her, then where's her list for me??" It goes both ways...

Similarly, what happens if the guy is a bit more 'traditional' like, and prefers to ask her father - regardless of how she feels about it? Doesn't he have just as much right to his feelings on the matter?

Grooms and Bridesmaids? Personally, I'd like my best mate up there with me, cos he's far more family than anyone else I've got... and in relations like that, you want them to be a part of your celebration... don't you??? It's sort of like saying "you'll always be standing right next to me... even through all of this stuff" (so remember that if I need a place to crash )

[anriana]

I'm sure there are plenty of situations where this is just a preference and is not really a big deal, or is considered respectful, or whatever reasons justify the continued existence of this sexist tradition. There are plenty of people who enjoy sexism in their daily life, and that's a different topic. For me personally, I am such a hardcore liberal feminist that anyone who was interested in this type of tradition or thought it was "proper" would not be a good life match for me. It's not "callousness" or "immaturity," it is simply recognizing my values and avoiding lifelong partnerships with people who don't share them.

[Rapscallion]

While I'd really love to ditto Raps, I'm more of the "If I need to keep a list of what her preferences are to appease her, then where's her list for me??" It goes both ways...

Men and women are different. Men are - in general - far easier to please. Explodey pixels on the screen or sports, or both. Plenty of beverages of choice, along with food of choice. Some sort of sexual activity on a regular basis. The chance to burp and/or fart without retribution - what more could a real chap want?

Obviously, when I say real chap, I'm excluding metrosexuals. They've got enough of their own problems inventing their own problems. They're actually women in disguise.

Rapscallion

[DesignFox]

<snip>
Obviously, when I say real chap, I'm excluding metrosexuals. They've got enough of their own problems inventing their own problems. They're actually women in disguise.

Rapscallion

Raps, you crack me up.

[guywithashovel]

I'll admit that, initially, I thought the idea of ending a relationship over someone asking the parents for a blessing was a bit severe. To some extent, I still do. But at the same time, if you're ready to propose to someone, you should know that person well enough to know what her (female pronoun because it's usually the guy that does the proposing) values are. Likewise, you should probably know her parents well enough to know what their values are and whether or not they would expect such a gesture.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Ack! Slytohand beat me to it!

It's not just the woman's wedding, it's the man's as well. What if part of his wedding ritual is that he would like to do the traditional thing and announce his intentions to the woman's parents? What if that's one of the the things HE'S always intended to do when he thought about getting married? What then?