Man, 69, applies to legally change age because he ‘identifies as 20 years younger’

[mjr]

Ditto. I guess it's nice(?) to see it's still the same people at it though at least?

-.-

I'll forgive you for that.

Transphobia has nothing to do with it. Sure, you can SAY it does, but you don't know, and have never met me.

I have a phrase I like to use in instances like this:

Something isn't true simply because you say it is.

And yet, often people are called "hateful" when they point out this pesky little thing called "biology".

[gremcint]

yeah no, it's transphobia. acting like trans people trying to be themselves is so utterly ridiculous that it should be used as an excuse for anything goes. Especially when the sleaze ball in the article outright says he just wants to lie to women to have sex wtih them.

Then you followed it up with comparing being trans to a mental illness.

Oh and also criticized which letters are in the LGTBQIA+ acronym, which is honestly just being petty.

And as for "biology" that argument doesn't hold up under scrutiny at all as a lot of research is debunking the gender binary.

[Canarr]

I'll forgive you for that.

Transphobia has nothing to do with it. Sure, you can SAY it does, but you don't know, and have never met me.

I have a phrase I like to use in instances like this:

Something isn't true simply because you say it is.

And yet, often people are called "hateful" when they point out this pesky little thing called "biology".

Seriously: why do you care? Why would anyone care whether or not someone they've never met wants to change their gender identity? Why, exactly, does it influence you how they see themselves? I don't get it.

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

And yet, often people are called "hateful" when they point out this pesky little thing called "biology".

And this line right here is why people are calling it transphobic (a term I hate because I think it's more inline with general prejudice than fear). "Biology" is not an answer. It's a field of study. So what are you referring to?

That men and women have XX or XY chromosomes? That some people have XXY? I've seen this line of thought before from Ben Shapiro (don't judge - hear everyone out regardless of what I think of their point) as if somehow Biology supports his arguments, but he's not making an argument. He's saying "I don't have to recognize transitioning because biology". Nevermind biology itself is well beyond just genetics this point into epigenetics (in the case of homoxexuality or sperm counts) and environmental effects.

Transgender people and their issues are a sensitive, multifaceted topic. I tend to defer to transgender folks on their own issue and while I do agree they don't get to define everything about gender dysforia by fiat, that does not mean shouting them down by yelling "biology" isn't anything more than bullying behavior.

So if we're talking about transgender, what are we talking about here?

Gender dysphoria is an actual medical condition. It is no longer classified by the DSM because it may or may not manifest in a person's life negatively but it is a known brain behavior. IT's not made up. It's not a choice anymore than my depressive bouts or facility with technical data. It's what the brain does - not what someone else thinks it should do.

Transgender or transitioning is more of an action. It is the application of trying to "fix" the external part of gender dysphoria and to live more in line with what the brain is actually telling this person they are. Is that right or wrong? I'm safely on the "not my life, not my call - you do you."

A person "identifying" with being 20 years younger? It's a totally different thing. Chronological age and biological age are two different constructs altogether. I fail to see where this person engaging in this is doing anything other than trying to make a different point. So I don't take the claim seriously, nor find it worthy of the comparison it comports to make. Whereas gender dysmorphia may be alleviated through transitioning, removing age from a license does nothing.

That is a far cry from studied medical facts (brain construction, fMRI behavior) and just sounds like a "did you just assume my <insert unrelated thing>?" jokes.

What I hate about the tact conservatives have taken on this, is there really are a lot of other questions about transitioning and transgender that need to be ironed out. Questions about depression, suicide, and what/if any positive or negative effects transitioning either does or does not confer. But yea we're not going to get that info while this group is abused for Alabama votes.

[Canarr]

Transgender people and their issues are a sensitive, multifaceted topic. I tend to defer to transgender folks on their own issue and while I do agree they don't get to define everything about gender dysforia by fiat, that does not mean shouting them down by yelling "biology" isn't anything more than bullying behavior.

+1 to that. Generally, I don't care what another adult does with his or her life. If they feel the need to change their gender, I don't see why that is anyone else's business.

What I'm a bit wary about is when the talk comes to Trans teenagers. From what I understand, it can be difficult to tell apart gender dysphoria and "normal" teenager insecurity about themselves, their identity and their sexuality. Therefore, initiating some kind of gender change process for someone whose personality - and thus, gender identity - isn't even fully developed yet, would be worrying to me.

[mjr]

Oh and also criticized which letters are in the LGTBQIA+ acronym, which is honestly just being petty.

And why is that? What's the Q stand for? I know the word, but what does it actually mean? And how is it different than the LGB part?

And all the others?

And why are there 500 genders now? That's an exaggeration but if you google it, I'm sure you'll come up with a high number. It's like the (in my opinion) ridiculous notion of "new" pronouns like zhe.

I actually know a guy who is fairly liberal who's on my side on this, too.

[Greenday]

And why is that? What's the Q stand for? I know the word, but what does it actually mean? And how is it different than the LGB part?

And all the others?

And why are there 500 genders now? That's an exaggeration but if you google it, I'm sure you'll come up with a high number. It's like the (in my opinion) ridiculous notion of "new" pronouns like zhe.

I actually know a guy who is fairly liberal who's on my side on this, too.

Queer is a catchall used for anyone not already included in the other letters. B is bisexual, I is intersex, A is for asexual or sometimes used for allies. It's all pretty straightforward.

Why do you care? If it doesn't affect you at all, why do you care what pronoun they want? Do you insist that everyone named Jonathan be called Jonathan and not John? Are you not okay with Alexandra's being called Alex?

[Gravekeeper]

And why is that? What's the Q stand for? I know the word, but what does it actually mean? And how is it different than the LGB part?
I actually know a guy who is fairly liberal who's on my side on this, too.

I totally know a guy who is fairly conservative who totes agrees with me on everything and his dad can also beat up your dad.

[Canarr]

I totally know a guy who is fairly conservative who totes agrees with me on everything and his dad can also beat up your dad.

@mjr: I‘m still curious: why do you care so much? How, exactly, does it affect you if someone else wants to identify as trans, or queer, or genderfluid? Why is this such a big deal to you?

[gremcint]

generally people have attitudes like this because it lets them feel superior and mock others. the reason I stopped coming here was because it basically became "hey look at this loser how dare students have anxiety, lol what losers" for almost every post.

but then they also get to frame it behind "I just thought it was an interesting discussion" or some other "intellectual" argument that they can also laugh off as just a "joke" or something when it's really them just trying to look down on people.

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

For me it's always come down to a good faith vs. bad faith discussion.

For example: Good Faith

Discussion with person A where they take a bigoted or really extreme position and after discussion some understanding is visible.

Moves to bad when:

No matter what person A is exposed to (that is not debunkable anyway) or how many things person A brings up are debunked the position doesn't change -OR-
Person A after appearing to understand the previous discussion slightly changes but posts an almost identically formed query or prompt.

--

I'm pretty sure everyone's figured this out about me by now, I just generally tend to enjoy discussion and I'm not a polar person. I've been more interested in some of the Reddit r/tooafraidtoask recently because while some really are just troll bait, others have really interesting discussions with them.

Fun stuff like how Transgender fits in with gender critical feminism, etc. That is, how are people processing possibly possibly antithetical ideas which to me is more intellectually honest than a post like this. I'm genuniely interested in discussion such as that or gender dating dynamics in 2018 but it's because I think they're (more so than political), consequential discussions that assess where we are, what ideologies are present, and are things being delivered that were promised.

At times this place is pretty awesome and I learn things I never knew but there's a fair amount of us vs. them and plenty that comes off as just antagonistic. If I could only find a way to post that wasn't always a wall 'o text...

[Daskinor]

If anyone has doubts about how Gender dysphoria is real. I can posts some brain scans, and other scholarly info that was used in getting Gender dysphoria re-classified in the first place.

I also have some good scans of schizophrenic brains too. You can see all this dead space around active areas. Its wild to see how their brains get more compartmentalized as the condition gets worse.

[mjr]

Queer is a catchall used for anyone not already included in the other letters. B is bisexual, I is intersex, A is for asexual or sometimes used for allies. It's all pretty straightforward.

Ok, but what does it mean? And what makes someone "queer" versus gay or bisexual?

Why do you care? If it doesn't affect you at all, why do you care what pronoun they want? Do you insist that everyone named Jonathan be called Jonathan and not John? Are you not okay with Alexandra's being called Alex?

False equivalency. People who are named Jonathan are using a shortened version of their given/birth name when they go by Jon (or John). Same with Alexandra/Alex.

What if I believe it does affect me, but in ways you wouldn't care about?

[mjr]

@mjr: I‘m still curious: why do you care so much? How, exactly, does it affect you if someone else wants to identify as trans, or queer, or genderfluid? Why is this such a big deal to you?

I could ask that same question about a number of Conservative positions that many of you complain about.

Nothing happens in a vacuum. Every change in law affects everyone, whether they know it or not.

[Daskinor]

What if I believe it does affect me, but in ways you wouldn't care about?

Please elaborate, how it affects you is of utmost curiosity to me.

Nothing happens in a vacuum. Every change in law affects everyone, whether they know it or not.

Also what is your slippery slope argument for this.