Another CPS thread this time with an explaination as to why....

[HEMI6point1]

*Part one.*

Since the other thread on this subject is nearly 4 months old, I figured I would start a new one. My apologies if this is long, but I want to be detailed here....

What got me incensed – and finally made my post this - is someone saying in the other thread, “Yeah call CPS” in response to me saying how a parent should be able to procure an alternate method of treatment for their child other than what a doctor prescribed. As if that person thinks it’s fun to possibly tear a family apart.

Now, I am not the biggest fan of CPS, as you can probably guess. People see me post links to stories on how CPS destroyed families on Facebook and ask me, “why the hell do you hate CPS so much?”

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Well let me tell you why.

It has to do with what happened to some close family friends of mine who I have known for a long time. They are more like family than friends. I merely touched on it last time, now I will go into greater detail.

Their daughter was 7 when it happened. Her elementary school for some reason housed an on-site CPS social worker in an office. The parents – including my friends – never knew about this, the school never told them. Probably because they knew parents would object.

One day, the teachers held a class to discuss “appropriate touching Vs inappropriate touching.” They laid out a mat and had all the children sit on it, one of which was our friend’s daughter.

What happened next turned their lives upside down for the next 6 months. The girl said some things that to any objective normal people standards would be perfectly innocent. But not to the teacher, who called in the social worker who yanked the girl out of class and into her office.

The girl (Who is now a woman in her late 20’s) has told us that she doesn’t remember what she said in the classroom, but she does remember being told “you’re going to a foster home.” When she asked about her mommy and daddy, the social worker told her “you’re going to have a new mommy and daddy.” Totally uncalled for on the social worker’s part.

What happened next was downright horrible. There was no due process, no judge, nothing. CPS wrote up a bunch of blatantly slanderous stuff about the girl’s father in their “report” to justify taking her from her parents and putting her into foster care without going to court or anything. They literally yanked her from school and took her right to a foster home. The mother begged CPS to let her daughter stay with relatives but they refused saying “too much risk that they’ll let the father have access to her.”

So for 6 months the girl was in foster care. Where she was belittled and verbally abused, not to mention put on meds “because she was hyper.” She remembers the only good thing about the foster home was their dog which reminded her of her biological parents’ house. One day, the dog was staring out the back door at a squirrel and licking its lips. The foster mother told the girl “don’t open the door he’ll chase the squirrel.” But the girl figured, “she’s not my real mom why should I listen to her?” So she opened the door and let the dog out. The foster mom responded by calling her “dumb” “stupid” and other insults.

At the end of the 6 months, according to the mother the only CPS agent who was actually helpful told her, “we have 5 prospective adoptive couples looking to adopt her. If you want your daughter back you have to act fast.” The solution? The father had to move away for a certain amount of time until CPS deemed it was “safe” for him to return home. He stayed with roommates for the time being.

The parents, unhappy but willing to do anything at this point, complied. Of course, CPS being, well…. CPS, would have a social worker drop by unannounced to make sure the mother was “complying” with the order that the father not be there. The only time the girl saw her father at this point was during “supervised” visits.

It took a little over a year after that, but the father did return home. They were now free to resume their lives before CPS tried to tear it apart. One of the first things they did was take her off her meds. The girl as previously mentioned is now a woman in her late 20’s and has two kids of her own and is doing pretty well, BTW.

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After hearing this story and after researching the stories of other families being ripped apart, I figured out why this woman as a 7 year old was taken when her father actually did nothing wrong. She was cute, had pale skin with blonde hair and green eyes. She would be a prime adoption candidate for a prospective couple. Simply put, she looked very much “adoptable.” The only reason I could think of the school housing an on-site social worker is because CPS was using the school as a “hunting ground” to look for adoptable kids.

As for CPS refusing to place the girl with relatives? I found out that CPS gets more federal funding dollars when a child is placed into foster care instead of relatives. Same reason why they drugged her in foster care – for some sick reason, when a child is placed on meds CPS again makes more money than a kid that is not given meds. It is literally a case of them just looking to get paid at the expense of children.

Finally, when the girl was returned home, why did the father have to move out, even if it was for a short time? I researched and found out that once CPS thinks a parent is guilty of something, it’s very difficult to change their minds.

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Now for one thing, while I think CPS is evil, they sadly are a necessary evil. There are *legit* cases where CPS does indeed need to get involved.

The problem I see is that due to them having to handle some tough cases, they are probably assuming that once a complaint or report is filed, that every parent they are called to investigate must be guilty of something. Which is a pretty shitty way of looking at things if you ask me. Or they will remove kids from homes for the dumbest of reasons…. Especially if they look adoptable.

Here are two that caught my eye:

CPS didn't like that a teenage girl had sex. - Short version: While the parents were glued to the weather report on TV during a tornado warning, their then-14 year old daughter wandered off to a different room of the house and went into the arms of her boyfriend. Well, I guess it was more than cuddling as she got pregnant. CPS accused the parents of “neglect by way of inadequate supervisor” and put the girl into foster care. I didn’t know it’s now a crime if you don’t watch over your kid like a hawk, apparently. Anyway, the girl had the baby and today she’s doing pretty well for herself but CPS refuses to release her from their custody even though she’s 20 years old and has her own place and the CPS commissioner (who’s a real piece of shit) told her if she even contacts her biological parents in any way they’ll take her son away from her. All this because her parents didn’t hover over her at all times, apparently.

Apparently "short" is a problem. - I wish this was an Onion article, but sadly it’s real. Short stature runs in the woman’s family. The daughter is short, but otherwise healthy. During a regular checkup, the doctor diagnosed the girl with “failure to thrive” and reported the mother to CPS. CPS took one look at her, more than likely saw she was “adoptable” and put her in foster care. Yep, that’s right. For being “too short.” The article does say she eventually got her kids back, but they should have never been taken in the first place. Before this, she had a previous run-in with CPS because cold medication caused a false positive for meth. By the way…. One of these days a doctor is going to report a parent to CPS for something stupid and that mother or father is going to snap and knock him into next week. Let’s hope I’m on the resulting jury because I would recommend they give that parent a medal for their service!

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Now before you say, “you’re still on that ‘adoptable’ crap give it up,” I have a relatively new friend who used to work for CPS, so he gave me some inside info. He confirmed to me that if they manage to find a foster kid a permanent home within 1 year via adoption, that branch of CPS gets extra federal funding. So because of that they tend to look for kids that will be desirable to a prospective adoptive couple so they don’t stay in foster care forever. Hence why my friends nearly lost their daughter to adoption via CPS, but a little black child in my area recently was taken away from his mother for various reasons then returned to her 1 year later who killed him shortly after. - simply put, he didn’t look “adoptable” enough. And no, it isn’t because of his ethnicity.

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BTW, the person above? I told him about how my high school shrink recommended to my mother that with my ADD and forgetfulness I should not learn how to drive “because I might pose a danger to myself and others on the road.” He said my mother should have sought a second opinion instead of essentially telling my shrink to “fuck off I’m teaching my son to drive.” I told him my mom would rather see for herself if I can drive safely instead of some shrink. He said “Before you ask me, yes if your shrink was an asshole she could have reported your mother to CPS.” Why, so she can be bullied by some asshat social worker into forcing my mother to not teach me how to drive? It’s been over 20 years and I have never been in an accident… well one, but that was caused by an idiot rear-ending me due to him not paying attention. Good thing my mother didn’t listen to the shrink!

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[HEMI6point1]

*Part two*

I did show my friend a link to another article about a Chicago couple who lost their kids to CPS because a “child abuse pediatrician” accused the mother of abuse after she brought her youngest into the emergency room to be checked out after a minor fall. He told me, “1 and 2 year olds don’t get brain bleeds from a 2 foot fall off the couch that’s why the kids were removed.”

Oh, really? Everyone’s body reacts to shit differently. I can eat sweets and sugary foods like a fucking champion. Hell, I can eat them late at night and still have no trouble going to sleep. My mother? If she eats anything with sugar or any food that turns to sugar after noontime she has a tough time falling asleep the next night.

That leads me to this story: Sad case of CPS listening to a child abuse pediatrician over other doctors.

Despite multiple other doctors testifying that the issues shown were not caused by abuse, CPS goes and only listens to the “child abuse pediatrician” to steal their kids away. In the same vein of a Chris Rock skit from back in the day that he couldn’t get away with now, there are women who are big…. And then there are fat bitches. The child abuse pediatrician who ripped this family apart is definitely a “fat bitch.” She used the same essential bullshit line, “2 year olds don’t get brain bleeds from a 2 foot fall off the swing.” She also said, “My job is to interpret.” Yeah, but what if you interpret wrong?

Sorry for saying this, after reading stories like this it makes it seem like child abuse pediatricians are being paid under the table by CPS to look for adoptable kids that come through the emergency rooms etc and falsely label their issues as “abuse” so CPS can take them and get them adopted out quick so they get that extra federal funding.

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Oh, and to the person in my first thread about this who insists that gardasil is “quite safe”: Piss off. You’re either a Big Pharma shill or an apologist.

Anita Vasquez was the mother whose 4 month old daughter was given the gardasil vaccine by mistake by an idiot doctor not paying attention. Immediately, the girl started having issues. Instead of listening to the mother who was insisting the issues only started after the vaccine was given, the doctors who are beholden to their overlords at Big Pharma accused her of causing the issues and had CPS take the baby away. The only reason the baby got better over time in foster care is because of the length of time that passed between the vaccine and now. Yes, I read the CPS allegations. The “diluted formula” was just a bullshit lie to justify taking the baby. For one thing, the mother begged them to try donated breast milk and they refused. CPS needs to cave to public pressure and return the girl to her mother!

If gardasil is so safe then why did a teenage girl get paralyzed from it? (Which BTW in that case doctors also accused the mother of causing the issues to blame it on the vaccine) If it’s so safe then why did an Illinois teen boy die from it? If it’s so safe then why did Japan’s government stop recommending it?

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BTW, what the fuck is with doctors calling CPS on parents simply for disagreeing with their diagnosis? Who died and made them god? Even worse, there is an epidemic of doctors who can’t get a diagnosis so they will flat out account accuse the patients – often children – of making their symptoms up, see here.

In certain cases, this can lead to doctors calling CPS when a parent disagrees with a doctor essentially calling a child crazy. Just look at the now-infamous case of Justina Pelletier. She had a condition called “mitochondrial disease,” Mito for short. Doctors at Boston’s Children Hospital diagnosed that the girl’s symptoms were psychiatric rather than mito, in other words they thought she was making it up. When her parents disagreed with this and wanted to put her in another hospital, the scumbag doctors conspired with CPS to accuse the parents of “harmfully interfering in her care” and locked the girl in a psychiatric ward for over a year. Where she was abused and did not get the actual help she needed, and what was once a vibrant active girl is now confined to a wheelchair. All because the doctors at Boston’s had an “I’m smart you’re stupid” mentality towards the parents. BTW… her and her parents are suing the hospital. I hope the jury awards them so much money the hospital goes bankrupt!

This is a widespread issue in the medical community where doctors report parents to CPS if they have the “nerve” to disagree with their diagnosis or ask for a 2nd option, like this case here. I swear, one of these days a distraught parent is going to be reported to CPS for this exact scenario and he/she is going to wait outside for the doctor and in a fit of rage kill him. When/if this happens, it will be the feel good story of the day. I would call this “justifiable homicide.” Let’s hope the jury recommends a medal and a quick release.

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One more thing, this story almost made me want to cry.

Especially this part: “CPS demanded that Lindsey use Skype to record herself giving three different drugs to Rico at 8 a.m. and 8 p.m. every day with the social worker watching. Rico hated the medicines and would cry and arch his back, and many times he would have seizures, all while the social worker looked on.”

If I knew this woman, I would tell her to run away in the dead of night and move somewhere…. Some place where CPS would never find her. This just gives ammunition to people like me who are beginning to think that CPS is a scummy organization that need to be beaten to the ground and have their teeth kicked in for what they did to that young mother.

Then again, it is the Mayo clinic that ordered the baby to be given the drugs. The same “hospital” that held an 18 year old girl hostage whose parents had to hatch a plan to break her out and escape.

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Now there is one story that differs from this account here: Child removed after asshole neighbor calls cops on couple for having a shouting match.

In another “mainstream” news source I found, CPS demanded the mother get drug tested after her child was initially removed and she tested positive for cocaine. Here’s the kicker: That was at the drug testing facility that CPS insisted she go to. She paid for another test out of pocket at a different facility and she came back clean. Draw your own conclusions.

Oh, I loved this little snippet: "....social workers allegedly were “concerned” about the possibility that the parents might, in the future, do something that would cause harm to their child, so DCS kept Devani in their custody...."

So I guess CPS feels they can predict the future. Okay then.

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But, after all that…. CPS is a necessary evil. But how do we make things better so parents who didn’t do anything wrong don’t have their families ripped apart?

I’ll give my take:

1. Repeal the “adoption and safe families act.” This is the law that was passed that allows the feds to give CPS branches extra federal funding for finding a foster child an adoptive home within 1 year of being in foster care. This is why CPS is cherry picking kids to place into foster care rather than going after the children that actually need help. They need kids in foster care that will look desirable to a prospective adoptive couple otherwise they’ll just stay in foster care until they age out.

2. Let parents have “right of first refusal” in the treatment of their children if they feel a prescribed Big Pharma medication is going to harm them free from being harassed by CPS. Obviously, this would not cover stupid stuff like “faith healing,” but let’s say a boy gets cancer and instead of chemo the mother gives him cannabis oil (The full blown stuff with THC) and it works to get him into remission. Doctors and CPS would have to just butt the fuck out and focus on the more important stuff.

3. Parents should have the full right to get a 2nd opinion or request their child be transferred to another hospital if they don’t like the first doctor’s diagnosis. This would prevent cases like Justina Pelletier from happening again. In addition, complications from vaccines and other Big Pharma drugs do happen so doctors need to actually find out if that is the cause of a child’s issues instead of accusing the parents of causing them and calling CPS.

4. Place someone to oversee CPS. Right now, CPS has no oversight and they use that to their advantage.

5. Right now, CPS keeps the identity of the person who called in a complaint a secret. Now for complaints that turn out to be true, fine. But if someone calls in a bullshit complaint and it ends tearing a family apart – even temporarily – CPS should divulge the identity of the person who called in the complaint. That way, a lawsuit can be filed. Or maybe a good ass whoopin’ is in order.

6. It’s law that CPS has to investigate every report that comes in. But they really need to exercise common sense. Is a teenage girl having sex with her boyfriend or a child being short really enough justify CPS taking them? Or recently, did CPS really have to harass a mother for letting her daughter walk the dog? The answer: NO!

[Daskinor]

Your personal anecdotal story rests on the "The girl said some things that to any objective normal people standards would be perfectly innocent" being accurate. Since we can't make that judgment for ourselves it is hard to simply take your word that CPS screwed up. For every wife thinks the husband in innocent story, I can offer an ...but he wasn't counter story.

CPS didn't like that a teenage girl had sex.

There is almost 0 collaborating evidence in the article, not even a link to a court filing. Whole thing is no better than hearsay. While at the surface the story seems heat wrenching there is to many questions about reason why things happened. Reasons that get dismissed in a sentence or two. Events that would leave a HUGE public paper-trail in the court system. I think there is allot more to this, and they are purposefully being left out of the story.

Apparently "short" is a problem.

Child with Cystic fibrosis combined with lapse in doctor visits, lead in the children's blood, leading to charges of medical neglect. Yea honestly there is allot of red flags there alone. And that is the fluffed up version of events.

“you’re still on that ‘adoptable’ crap give it up,”

Yea it makes almost no sense from a couple of different levels. Mainly because children can be in the system for years before rights are terminated. The federal government does pay funding bonuses for adopting out children in those situation. So what gives... we are talking about children what are straight up abandoned, orphaned or lived in such a situation that a Judge signed off on it. Most of your arguments for this involve someone making money on the back end for it. The logistics of the conspiracy make no sense. How widespread the conspiracy is said to be makes no sense. Fuck converting federal money to a under the table payout to a state worker. Just bringing that to fruition on such a wide scale.... all for an amount of money that only offsets the amount of money the child costs wile in the system.

And they are not going to adopt out a child until prenatal rights are permanently terminated. If there was still a chance her mother could get her back they were not going to adopt out the child. Judge has to sign off on that, etc... Also negative bonus points for blaming a system you activity hate for not using said system to save a child from an unlikely outcome. When in the end their hands were tied.

I did show my friend a link to another article about a Chicago couple who lost their kids to CPS because a “child abuse pediatrician” accused the mother of abuse after she brought her youngest into the emergency room to be checked out after a minor fall. He told me, “1 and 2 year olds don’t get brain bleeds from a 2 foot fall off the couch that’s why the kids were removed.”

You also don't break bones from a 2 foot drop. Your arm wont break if I drop a 5 pound weight on it. Unless there is something seriously wrong with you. So much that you are on the ass end on the curve. So much that the odds of it happened because "your body is different" is less than the "Parent could be lying". Also brain bleeds are super serious and take allot of sheering force, people in this article talk like they are bruises.

That leads me to this story: Sad case of CPS listening to a child abuse pediatrician over other doctors.

Also the medical kidnap people think any procedure can cause any other injury because reasons. A heel draw can cause a comminuted fracture because the nurses use hammers in the procedure or something.

Oh, and to the person in my first thread about this who insists that gardasil is “quite safe”: Piss off. You’re either a Big Pharma shill or an apologist.

Ok for those of you who don't know gardasil is a vaccine for HPV. An infant was accidentally given the vaccine meant for his sibling. Parents of said infant claim it made the infant very sick. Doctors are claiming its Manchurians through proxy. CPS and police think the parents are making the child appear sick so they can sue for damages.

First off the vaccine is safe, safe as the flu shot. The reason we don't give it to infants is that first. People still think vaccines are some kind evil conspiracy other then the most powerful tool for human health and society EVER CREATED. And it will turn their daughters into whores. Actual no its because gardasil needs a booster every 6 years.

There is no immune mechanism that would make the effectiveness different for an infant, or any more dangerous. And in fact the dose is the same no matter your body weight.

One more thing, this story almost made me want to cry

further reading;

It was around that time that Cheryl’s father read an article that would change everything for them. Peter Duesberg, Ph.D., had published research such as this paper in scientific journals that connected the development of AIDS in HIV patients to the use of AZT. He also challenged the mainstream theory that HIV caused AIDS (See paper).

The Nagels wrote to Dr. Duesberg. As a result of what they learned, they decided to take Lindsey off of AZT and started working with a holistic doctor. The results were almost miraculous. She immediately started gaining weight and thriving. Her labs were normal.

Either this article is bullshit, no its bullshit. And that guy is an asshole of the highest order. He is the big HIV does not cause AIDS, its really the gay. Also fuck the mother because she refused to take the drugs that would of prevented transmission of HIV to her baby. Yes zidovudine fucking sucks, but it works. It works very well.

Now there is one story that differs from this account here: Child removed after asshole neighbor calls cops on couple for having a shouting match.

In another “mainstream” news source I found, CPS demanded the mother get drug tested after her child was initially removed and she tested positive for cocaine. Here’s the kicker: That was at the drug testing facility that CPS insisted she go to. She paid for another test out of pocket at a different facility and she came back clean. Draw your own conclusions.

Cocaine has a very short half-life in the human body.

Oh, I loved this little snippet: "....social workers allegedly were “concerned” about the possibility that the parents might, in the future, do something that would cause harm to their child, so DCS kept Devani in their custody...."

So I guess CPS feels they can predict the future. Okay then.

Didint you already complain that a child died because they cold not predict the future.

1. Repeal the “adoption and safe families act.”

The act end the money offsets the cost of the process of adopting out children. Not like they print a catalog and just ask respective parents to pick one out. CPS is going to adopt out any children they feel can be adopted out to get them out of the system. The federal funding makes it easier to accomplish this. The fact children are more adoptable or waste in the system is a problem with society at large.

Let parents have “right of first refusal”

Oh hell no

3. Parents should have the full right to get a 2nd

They already do, assuming the child is currently stable and moving him or her would not endanger their health. Of course insurance generally wont pay for transport or that other doctor depending on the situation. As for Justina Pelletier she was originally diagnosed with Mitochondrial disease, it has no cure and almost no treatment options. The second opinion was somatic symptom disorder, something that can be treated but tricky to pin down. Parents wanted to do a medical sightseeing tour and try radical and untested treatments. Remember there is no good treatment for Mitochondrial diseases, that includes treatment for quality of life.

This is a huge deal hospital, so and they are fighting it in court. Makes me think there is more afoot, so lets wait and see.

4. Place someone to oversee CPS. Right now, CPS has no oversight and they use that to their advantage.

they already do. And in most stated judges need to sign off on their actions within 24 hours, unless the situation is extreme. Troubled systems do get federal oversight when needed.

5. Right now, CPS keeps the identity of the person who called in a complaint a secret.

Yay vigilantly justice. Yay people not reporting because they don't want family beating them up.

6. It’s law that CPS has to investigate every report that comes in. But they really need to exercise common sense.

Like any investigation they do. But they can't just go "my gut says". If people make their investigation difficult, it will cause more issues. If people have different answers to the same questions. Injuries that are suspicious. Etc... IT makes things take longer to resolve.

[HEMI6point1]

There is almost 0 collaborating evidence in the article, not even a link to a court filing. Whole thing is no better than hearsay. While at the surface the story seems heat wrenching there is to many questions about reason why things happened. Reasons that get dismissed in a sentence or two. Events that would leave a HUGE public paper-trail in the court system. I think there is allot more to this, and they are purposefully being left out of the story.

Okay, so I showed my friend (The one that used to work for CPS) this article. I pointed out that underage girls have sex and get pregnant plenty of times without CPS getting involved and putting them into foster care.

While he did agree that on going with the article alone CPS should have left her with her biological parents, what is left out is the age of her boyfriend when she got pregnant. The question is, was he old enough to violate statutory rape laws? He told me that he suspected that could have played a role into CPS placing her into foster care.

Ok for those of you who don't know gardasil is a vaccine for HPV. An infant was accidentally given the vaccine meant for his sibling. Parents of said infant claim it made the infant very sick. Doctors are claiming its Manchurians through proxy. CPS and police think the parents are making the child appear sick so they can sue for damages.

If you believe this horseshit, I feel sorry for you. Doctors are so beholden to Big Pharma and will do anything to kiss their ass that they would rather cover up a vaccine injury and blame the mother than admit that a drug fucked up her child.

First off the vaccine is safe, safe as the flu shot.

Are you so sure about that?

The reason we don't give it to infants is that first. People still think vaccines are some kind evil conspiracy other then the most powerful tool for human health and society EVER CREATED. And it will turn their daughters into whores. Actual no its because gardasil needs a booster every 6 years.

Conservatives started that BS about fear their daughters would want to have sex with anything that moves if they got the HPV vaccine. When in reality it's actually caused horrible side effects.

Like this girl who got paralyzed from it. Again, doctors ass kissing Big Pharma won't admit to it causing her issues and are insisting she's making it up. Fucking pricks!

Either this article is bullshit, no its bullshit. And that guy is an asshole of the highest order. He is the big HIV does not cause AIDS, its really the gay. Also fuck the mother because she refused to take the drugs that would of prevented transmission of HIV to her baby. Yes zidovudine fucking sucks, but it works. It works very well.

Is there any reason to disrespect the dead? I stand by my post earlier - she should have told CPS to fuck off and if I knew her, I would tell her to take her baby and run.

Cocaine has a very short half-life in the human body.

Since you obviously didn't get what I was trying to say, I will: I have heard other stories of CPS accusing a mother of using drugs and when she takes a test at a facility CPS paid for, she comes back positive for something. When she takes another test someplace else out of pocket, she comes back clean. Which means that CPS is paying those testings facilities off to falsify results to help their case.

Oh hell no

You picked the one type of "first refusal" that I specifically said would not be covered.

They already do, assuming the child is currently stable and moving him or her would not endanger their health. Of course insurance generally wont pay for transport or that other doctor depending on the situation. As for Justina Pelletier she was originally diagnosed with Mitochondrial disease, it has no cure and almost no treatment options. The second opinion was somatic symptom disorder, something that can be treated but tricky to pin down. Parents wanted to do a medical sightseeing tour and try radical and untested treatments. Remember there is no good treatment for Mitochondrial diseases, that includes treatment for quality of life.

Ummmm.... no. Justina's parents wanted to transfer her back to her original hospital. One that wouldn't accuse their daughter of being a mental case. Doctors decided that their word was god and locked the poor girl in a mental ward instead of getting her the help she needs.

Yay vigilantly justice. Yay people not reporting because they don't want family beating them up.

Let's say some anti-spanking crusader moron sees a mother giving her daughter one measly bottom spank in a parking lot for being a brat in a store and calls CPS. CPS ends up taking her daughter away for a year because of it. Why shouldn't the mother be able to know the identity of the asshole who ended up causing her to be without her daughter for a year, so she can sue the living shit out of them?

[Dreamstalker]

^ This. The right to face one's accuser is recognized in the court system, I see nothing that would negate that here. If someone's life is upended to that extent by a false accusation, they deserve to know by who. Now there could be the potential for stalking/harassment/violence...but that can probably be addressed.

My mom loves to relate the time when I was a baby and the pediatrician almost called CPS on her...I was starting solid foods, and mom made fresh oyster stew. Which naturally I devoured happily (and I credit my eternally-adventurous palate to this). The only logical rationale I could think of would have been shellfish/dairy allergies, none of which were an issue. But this was the late 70s, and there was a lot of strange parenting advice running around (mom also let the cat sleep with me; Livia had a weird bond with me and would instantly alert her if I woke up or even moved).

[Daskinor]

Yes Gardasil is safe.

I see these kinds of inaccurate reporting all the time and its stupid. Here is he court order for the Christina Tarsell case.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QWj...8BlFU3G4b/view

Its basically an order for the court to reply the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act in a different way. Allowing suit to go forward instead of being dismissed. Its still a long shot and will probably end up being ruled the same way. Its not the judge saying that the vaccine killed her, its just saying the case can go forward to try and prove it did. So the article you linked is not factually accurate.

Currently no one is sure why she died, the best guess is an autoimmune response. Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS) is normally the culprit. This does not mean the vaccine is at fault. It could of been a bacteria or a cold, in fact an infection is far more likely. A minor infection of the heart and the immune response just kept on attacking.

I'm going to try and explain something. So 80 million doses where given out in a 9 year period. VAERS received 117 reports of death after people received Gardasil. In fact 30 days after a dose was given there were 13 deaths identified of which 9 were due to external causes such as accident, homicide, or suicide. Of the 4 remaining deaths, two were determined unrelated to vaccination and the other two did not have sufficient evidence to confirm or rule out whether Gardasil caused the death. When the VSD compared the rate of death following Gardasil to national rates of death for all causes in the United States, the risk of death was not increased during the 30 days following vaccination and no deaths were to be causally associated with vaccination after clinical review.

That's the thing, where your dealing with numbers of people this large someone is going to drop dead for no easily identifiable reason. Its just probability and statistics.

Numbers are tracked by medical coding, its very rare for anything like that to fly under the radar. Computer sees the code for being given a dose of a vaccine, and a death or GBS diagnosis. Its going to trigger and alert.

Meanwhile HPV causes cancer. The virus genetic payload can trigger cancer in certain cells. It is the evolutionary advantage this virus has developed. Once it takes over a cell, it can cause it to reproduce out of control and still produce viruses. This again is a numbers game. How do you measure worth. The number of people damaged by a vaccine (a low number) or number of people who will not get cancer because they don't get HPV.

Ruby Shallom, Her symptoms developed weeks (it’s not clear how many) after her HPV vaccination, and she didn’t start to develop muscle weakness until two years after having received the HPV vaccine. I also note that doctors do not suggest lightly that symptoms like this are psychosomatic. Such a conclusion is almost always a diagnosis of extreme exclusion, only after a complete investigation has been done. Also, who knows if that’s what doctors actually said? We only see one side of the story. And this still puts us in the same statistical zone where it could be something else and the relationship is likely coincidental. And that zone widens if the initial symptoms are unrelated to her current problem.

And in the end these anecdotal stories prove nothing. They try and place blame on something that is probably blameless. It could be an unfortunate coincidence, it could be that something went horribly wrong once or twice in 80 million people. But attributing malice or some kind of big pharma conspiracy is disingenuous.

There is no real proof of a conspiracy. Somehow are we being tricked to buy a placebo, are we being intentionally poisoned, so unsafe that thousands of people drop dead?

We think 1000 people dying in one flu season a big deal. When the last major outbreak in 1920 was 20 to 100 million dead. In women 20 to 24 years old, the prevalence of HPV infection fell from 18.5 percent to 12.1 percent. That going to be a reduction of about 15,000 cases of cancer a year as they hit 40.

All this paranoia does is add to the real health crisis of the resurgence of other diseases we almost eradicated.

Is there any reason to disrespect the dead? I stand by my post earlier - she should have told CPS to fuck off and if I knew her, I would tell her to take her baby and run.

Is there any reason I should respect the dead when they made bad choices. The occurring theme next is quality of life vs effectiveness of care. HIV medications SUCK, they really, really SUCK. But they are effective. And this was even more so during so during that time period.

So this what happened. She took a medication with some very annoying and uncomfortable side effects. But it did allow her to keep a functional immune system. Somehow she got in her head that HIV does not cause AIDS and stoped the medication. OF COURSE SHE FELT BETTER.

Now she got pregnant and passed HIV to the child. (Why I say fuck her, she could of went back on the medication at any point in the first 3-5 months to prevent the child's infection.) HIV infections of children that young almost always cause AIDS. So the court ordered that she needed to medicate the child with retro-vials. Yes she died from complications from HIV.

Since you obviously didn't get what I was trying to say, I will: I have heard other stories of CPS accusing a mother of using drugs and when she takes a test at a facility CPS paid for, she comes back positive for something. When she takes another test someplace else out of pocket, she comes back clean. Which means that CPS is paying those testings facilities off to falsify results to help their case.

You said draw my own conclusions, my conclusion is she simply got retested when she thought she would come up clean. Since we have no more details of this case I believe it is very plausible. More so then a conspiracy to pay off people to given them the results they want. For what, more more to do?

No, you do not get to assume some kind of outlandish claim without proof because it fits your world view.

The possibles are;

1. A false positive from testing error
2. A false negative from the second test
3. Both test results are correct due to natural human processes
4. The original results were falsified by CPS
5. The second results were falsified by the woman or the company who did the test

In the end it for the courts to decide biased on all the available evidence.

You picked the one type of "first refusal" that I specifically said would not be covered.

Going back to your original post

Let parents have “right of first refusal” in the treatment of their children if they feel a prescribed Big Pharma medication is going to harm them free from being harassed by CPS. Obviously, this would not cover stupid stuff like “faith healing,” but let’s say a boy gets cancer and instead of chemo the mother gives him cannabis oil (The full blown stuff with THC) and it works to get him into remission. Doctors and CPS would have to just butt the fuck out and focus on the more important stuff.

Bold for emphasis.

So this is what happens in generality;

~I want to stop my child from having chemo he is miserable.

-But children with your sons condition have a (high but not zero mortality rate) with treatment it's (not as high)

~But he is in pain and it hurts him all the time

-Yes the medication is rough on the human body but its his best chance for survival.

~I been giving him cannabis oil it makes him feel better.

-The active ingredients in the oil have been known to reduce pain and help with appetite. But dosage is tricky to manage due to (these variables)

~I want to switch him to just the cannabis oil, its been known cure cancer.

-No it has not, and there is no mechanism that has been identified that can effect cancer in such a way to cure it. In fact cancer is a wide range of different diseases with a common mechanisms. There would be no one cure because (technical reasons)

~But I read it on the internet, these people took cannabis and went into remission

- *Discussion about anecdotal evidence and causation. And the fact people do go into remission with major cancers. Even without treatment because of various reasons that amount to being very lucky*

~I will do it anyway, he is suffering

How is that any different then faith healing. Because they went to a few bias articles on the internet? Doctor is put into the position of letting the parent have their way. Or preforming a treatment that will give a clear and measurable chance of success.

Ummmm.... no. Justina's parents wanted to transfer her back to her original hospital. One that wouldn't accuse their daughter of being a mental case. Doctors decided that their word was god and locked the poor girl in a mental ward instead of getting her the help she needs.

According to the lawsuit that's not the case. Especially since her condition neither improved or declined while at the hospital. Remember they suspected physiological issues, no change over a year is actually a good sign. Honestly the fact she is still alive points to her not having a mitochondrial disease. (there is a small chance she is just very lucky)

In fact they are not even suing over the diagnosis only the charge that they were interfering (the parents) with her treatments. Why I did not want to comment to deeply because there is not allot of data available that is not hearsay. My thoughts are that that the hospital was probably correct in their diagnosis of somatic symptom disorder. The suit is seems to be laser focused on the doctor reporting the medical interference (oh and education and not being able to attend mass as a result). Only court documents I could find was the ruling that the doctor did not have professional immunity in the reporting. My academic access has limited access to Massachusetts court filings.

But from what I can see they are not fighting over the diagnosis, I don't think she has Mitochondrial Disease. We wont know for sure unless a judge rules. If they settle it most likely will be sealed.

Let's say some anti-spanking crusader moron sees a mother giving her daughter one measly bottom spank in a parking lot for being a brat in a store and calls CPS. CPS ends up taking her daughter away for a year because of it. Why shouldn't the mother be able to know the identity of the asshole who ended up causing her to be without her daughter for a year, so she can sue the living shit out of them?

Ask your CPS friend that question. Would they take her away for the report, or would they need some kind of collaborating evidence.

[Gravekeeper]

You're going to have to do so, so much better than tabloids and anonymous anti-vaxxer conspiracy blogs.

^ This. The right to face one's accuser is recognized in the court system, I see nothing that would negate that here. If someone's life is upended to that extent by a false accusation, they deserve to know by who. Now there could be the potential for stalking/harassment/violence...but that can probably be addressed.

I mean, you're technically correct ( the best kind of correct ) but in this hyperbolic spanking scenario the spanking is a statement of fact. It's up to CPS to investigate from there and find evidence of abuse. At which point they become the accuser if they find anything. If they rely on nothing but a witness statement that can be examined in court, sure. But you can't sue someone for being a busybody in a parking lot and taking your kids away would be CPS's decision. Not said busybody.

Now, if someone called and said you were beating the tar out of your children when you were just walking them to the car; That would indeed be a criminal false accusation. But that scenario doesn't work for the OP's conspiracy laden crusade.

[Talon]

...if that bothers you….

1. I’m really sorry.
2. I’ll try to make it shorter next time.
3. 1 and 2 are lies.
4. I really don’t care.

Starting a thread with this sort of posturing act strikes me as a pretty good indication that no one should take your ranting seriously.

*That was found on a meme as a joke.

Try saying something funny next time.

[HEMI6point1]

I am going to update this post. First off, I removed the offending section that member Talon was pointing to.

Secondly, I want to add a link here to something that happened in Michigan:

Child Abuse Specialist jumps to conclusions and nearly tears a family apart.

The article links to a mainstream local TV news source. I am glad that they are start to pick these up.

The reason why I said "nearly" is because a judge ordered the kid returned to the parents. I especially love this part:

After 8 months and a lengthy trial, a Wayne County judge dismissed the case and apologized to the Parkers saying in his ruling, “I heard a lot deeper science from some of the other witnesses than I heard from Dr. Mohr.”

Which is legalese for "I think you're full of shit."

What gets me is.... The official actual cause for the bone fractures was rickets. Why didn't this "doctor" check for that instead of accusing the parents of abuse almost immediately?

Oh yeah, I know why.

The baby was cute with pale white skin and looked well kept and well groomed. The perfect candidate for a prospective adoptive couple. In other words, she looked adoptable.

This isn't the first time this Child Abuse "Specialist" has tried to rip families apart. When this story was posted to Medical Kidnap's Facebook page, a bunch of parents came forward and commented on how this woman accused them of abuse to try and have CPS take their kids away.

Remember.... Child Abuse Specialists may work IN a hospital, but they are not paid BY the hospital. They are paid by good ol' CPS. Which means they are the first line in a sordid process to look for adoptable kids for CPS to take so they can get their federal bonus money when they get adopted out of foster care.

For god's sake they're not even real doctors! All they do is look at charts and make the interpretation if a condition stems from abuse or not. Some don't even see the child, they just guess.

[Daskinor]

Lets see.

Blog article that misinterprets facts. Check

Conspiracy Theory. Check



First off the doctor did what he was legally and morally supposed to do. He suspected abuse and the child needed medical attention. He had them go to a hospital that he could report his suspicions too. The subterfuge was to make sure they went to the hospital in the first place, in the off chance that they would refuse to do that because they knew the child was abused. A situation where the parents were lying and felt the doctor did not believe the abuse. He is not going to be in a position to screen for anything rare or out of place when there is obvious trauma.

Lets see:

“They went into autopilot: bloodwork x-rays, CT scan,” Allie said. “They came back and told us he had a rib fracture, which shocked us. Why would our 6-week-old have a rib fracture?”

Probably why CPS was involved.

From this point on the article is less on specifics. Low Vitamin D, and a diagnosis of rickets would point to malnutrition, or a rare genetic disorder. And they never come out and say what it was. And an answer to that question would of taken weeks. Especially the genetic disorder, since most of the time they have to verify over a period of time. We lack any details and its from only the mothers point of view. Why I hate things written for shock value.

The real villains here to be how long this took to get through the courts in the first place.
But I don't see how this falls into your conspiracy theory at all. Are children with genetic disorders half off or something. That somehow the child would of been given to strangers over a family member against state law first? Because somehow all CPS departments, all over the country are in on some kind of bizarre child trafficking scheme for federal money.

Or are we dealing with laws, people, opinions, high emotions, and bureaucracy. And because no system is perfect there are things that do go wrong.

Just this weak alone the hospital I am contracted to work at had;

-One infant death due to a brain bleed, mother was an anti-vaxer and she refused the vitamin K shot.
-Toddler with a broken arm, parents claimed it was a fall until the bruising showed up. Could see the hand print. This child was the 'right color' too. Child is still in a room with a guard and no contact because the parents are going apeshit.
-Don't get me started on the measles doctors and nurses were brought in to view the patient so they could see it first hand.
-A 18 year old asked for vaccinations while she was in for another procedure. Doctors said ok, mother slapped her around her hospital room when she found out.
-4 year old with cigarette burns, this was a call ahead from a pediatrician office.
-The child with a compromised immune system that was court ordered to get vaccinated. Parents divorced, child was to be sent to a school for children with compromised immune systems. And they required vaccinations. Mother falsified documents saying her child was vaccinated. She ended up almost dying from chickenpox. Three weeks in the ICU.