state prisons finally forced to take action

[Greenday]

It's so amazing how far forensic technology has gotten in the past 20 or so years. Heck, even some of the stuff I use in my labs now is outdated. Most of our job has been turned into just sample prep. The instruments do everything for us. A lot of the theory came quickly. It was just inventing new instruments to do what we want. At this point, it's just trying to make instruments able to detect smaller quantities of chemicals, with more accuracy and precision.

I agree that we shouldn't have guards that don't want to do their jobs properly, but I don't know of too many people that want to be a prison guard and treat prisoners humanely.

[Lace Neil Singer]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_sexuality

I know that wiki isn't a source, per se, but it's true that not all sex in prison is rape, altho a lot of it is. I'd also cite as a source Carl Panzram's autobiography; part of it details the "punking" system, where heterosexuals will willingly enter into a same sex relationship for protection. Would it count as a sex offence, if say a teenager tried as an adult, in return for protection from repeated gang rape, entered into a relationship with another inmate?

I don't mean to say that I think that all prison sex is consentual, just that there is consent in some cases. Implying that it's all consentual is as bad as implying that it's all rape. Interestingly, prison rape is rarely about sex; it's more of a power thing, a way of claiming dominance over what is perceived as a weaker individual. Carl Panzram would have been shocked to be labeld as homosexual for his rapes; they were power rapes and a lot of prisoners who carry out prison rape do so for the same reason.

Also; read this if you're on the fence about prison rape. It will shock you. http://www.esquire.com/features/what...4-AUG_SEXSLAVE

[BroomJockey]

Would it count as a sex offence, if say a teenager tried as an adult, in return for protection from repeated gang rape, entered into a relationship with another inmate?

Actually, it's extortion. "Hey, gimme your ass, and I'll make sure no one else has it" is pretty much the same as "Hey, it'd be a real shame if anything happened to this store of yours, eh?"

[Nyoibo]

If Jeffry Dahmer were still alive, would you people be rioting for his safety and comfort in prison? Really?

Safety yes comfort? Fuck no my thinking is along the lines of Joe Arpaio.

protection. Would it count as a sex offence, if say a teenager tried as an adult, in return for protection from repeated gang rape, entered into a relationship with another inmate?

That is rape.

[kibbles]

i give you the case of timothy cole. convicted of rape in 1985 based largely on the eyewitness testimony of the woman he supposedly raped. she believed beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was the one who raped her. earlier this year he was cleared of all charges based on dna evidence and the confession of the actual rapist. the problem is that tim cole died in prison in 1999 of an asthma attack, one of several life-threatening attacks he had while serving his sentence. he was just a rapist who didn't deserve adequate medical attention, right? wrong.

how do you propose now to compensate his family for the death of their son, brother, friend? for all the years they lost based on a false conviction?

I think the women who made the false claim should be held liable in some regard.

[linguist]

I think the women who made the false claim should be held liable in some regard.

if she'd lied, i'd agree, but she didn't. she spoke what she absolutely believed to be true. after her actual rapist confessed (after the statute of limitations had run out), she joined cole's family in advocating his exoneration.

there is plenty of blame to go around in this case; the rapist, the police who mishandled the investigation, the prosecution and judges who ignored the confession of the rapist and refused to allow dna testing that would clear cole, and now the governor who will not issue a posthumous pardon, but not the victim.

[kibbles]

JMO; but, I have a hard time believing that she didn't lie. If he didn't wear or mask, etc..then she obviously saw his face. Or if he wore a mask or if it was dark then she couldn't speak "beyond a reasonable doubt" JMO of course.

[linguist]

there is a difference between being mistaken and being dishonest; a lot of the problem goes into the police mishandling of the investigation. essentially, rather than showing a traumatized woman a picture of cole and asking "is this the man who raped you?" they showed her the picture and told her "this is the man who raped you." besides, eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable. should every eyewitness who's ever been wrong be held accountable? it's not their job to be right, it's the police's job to find the evidence that verifies or invalidates their testimony, and the prosecution's job to build a case around more than just a single eyewitness.

[Akasa]

My best friend was violently raped by a serial rapist of teen aged girls. Her scar tissue is so bad she can't have sex with her husband. Ever. Unless she wants to under go very serious pain. Fortunately she has a husband that is ok with not having sex with her because he doesn't want to cause her pain.
I hope he's been made a prison bitch in the over 16 years he's been in prison at least once.
Does this make me a bad person?
Maybe.
But *I* was the one there with her as he stalked her after she reported it. Hanging outside her house, making threatening phone calls, dropping by her work and choosing her lane at the grocery store when there were plenty of other stores and lanes.
*I* was the one who's house she hid out at and who helped her to over come her frequent nightmares.
Do I know what its like to be raped? Sure do.
And I still wish it on another? Sure do.

[BlaqueKatt]

My best friend was violently raped by a serial rapist of teen aged girls. <snip>
I hope he's been made a prison bitch in the over 16 years he's been in prison at least once.<snip>
And I still wish it on another? Sure do.

Did you not read all the articles posted here-seriously if he was a serial rapist he's probably still one in prison-again predators do not become prey just because they are jailed-they just continue being predators.

Also if he was a serial rapist why was nothing done previously, ditto on the stalking-trust me I have a thread on here because I have a stalker-I own a gun. If the police won't protect me, I'm damn sure NOT going to be an easy victim.

As far as condoning prison rape-it's deplorable and makes a person no better than the rapist-you sink to their level, it's vengeance NOT justice. Also as those who are rapists on the outside continue to do so on the inside-turning a blind eye to it merely creates more victims. Both inside and outside, as the individual who was raped in prison does not get any kind of counseling to deal with the trauma and they usually go on to create more victims once released.

as far as prisoners being denied medical care yes they are-most prisons don't have any medical staff, or if they do it's an LPN part-time only.

My local paper had an excellent story about this linked here Some highlights include:

I suggest reading the entire article-it's sickening how prisoners who still have BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS(conviction of a crime does not remove humanity or suspend the constitutional rights of anyone) are treated.

Mentally ill inmates receive inadequate treatment and therapy, which leads to self-destructive behavior, violent behavior toward guards and, ultimately, a high recidivism rate.

A U.S. Department of Justice report and a lawsuit from the American Civil Liberties Union of Wisconsin both charged that the Eighth Amendment rights of inmates were being violated because of inadequate overall health care and mental health care.



As of June 2008, 77.3 percent, or 528, of Taycheedah's 683 inmates had a mental illness. This includes alcohol or drug dependency.

Allowing correctional officers to distribute psychotropic medication to such a high percentage of inmates is not only extremely rare, but dangerous, say inmate advocates. Because officers receive no formal medical training, they do not know how to distinguish between a side effect and bad behavior.

the minimum professional standards require psychology staff to monitor inmates with serious mental illnesses at least once a month. In Wisconsin, such inmates are monitored once every four months.

Between June 2007 and June 2008, mentally ill inmates were involved in 90 percent of incidents in which inmates harmed themselves and nearly 80 percent of the assaults on staff, according to the state audit.

[Flyndaran]

I also want false accusers to suffer real jail time as long as it is very very provable. I just don't like those supposed rape advocates that don't want this. That view just leads to more people not being believed because everyone know that liars never get punished.

Also with so many studies so obviously biased it really does seem unknown how common rape really is in prison.
I'm sure there are legitimate couples, but I wonder how common they are as well.

I'm not sure I feel comfortable listing addictions as mental illnesses.
As someone with crippling anxiety, I feel a little insulted to be lumped in with those that kind of created thier problems.
I certainly believe they should get help, but I prefer a little linguistic distancing.

[Slytovhand]

Maybe we should just take it back there before everyone (if they already don't) pictures me with a Hitler moustache and my right arm flaring out at everyone.

In a white bikini... paying homage to the Carp! Nice image!

it's sickening how prisoners who still have BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS

Well, you see now, that's where we differ on opinion... If you intentionally go out of your way to violate another person's 'basic human rights', then you lose your own. Simple.. I started a thread about it too And, I'd suggest, that's where Blas and Akasa are coming from too.

(Please, note what was actually written: if you violate another's basic human rights... indicating, fraud is not a violation of another's rights... rape and murder are!)

But - the legal system is badly flawed, so, to an extent, the above is irrelevant anyway...

Time for a new (philosophical - of course ) thread....

[BlaqueKatt]

Well, you see now, that's where we differ on opinion... If you intentionally go out of your way to violate another person's 'basic human rights', then you lose your own.

Nope you lose your freedom, unless they take away a few chromosomes or alter your DNA-you are still human and thus entitled to basic human rights.

The UN would like a word or two with you about that......

On December 10, 1948 the General Assembly of the United Nations adopted and proclaimed the Universal Declaration of Human Rights-which can be found here

" Whereas recognition of the inherent dignity and of the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world,

Whereas disregard and contempt for human rights have resulted in barbarous acts which have outraged the conscience of mankind, and the advent of a world in which human beings shall enjoy freedom of speech and belief and freedom from fear and want has been proclaimed as the highest aspiration of the common people."

Article 2.

* Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

Article 3.

* Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.


Article 4.

* No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.


Article 5.

* No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

[Flyndaran]

Would be nice if the U.S. actually followed those rules.

[Akasa]

Well, you see now, that's where we differ on opinion... If you intentionally go out of your way to violate another person's 'basic human rights', then you lose your own. Simple.. I started a thread about it too And, I'd suggest, that's where Blas and Akasa are coming from too.

(Please, note what was actually written: if you violate another's basic human rights... indicating, fraud is not a violation of another's rights... rape and murder are!)

That is indeed where I am coming from.