Bullying

[Bright Star]

The problem with stopping bulliers in their tracks is when the victim reports that they are bullied then the authorities, be it teachers or what-not, don't believe them OR worse assume that it's the victim's fault. They say they need to stand up for themselves but when do & get into a fight to try to strike back then 9 times out of 10 it's the victim who gets punished & the bully gets away with it.
You can make all kinds of laws & rules to stop bullying but it will never go away. Teachers & such can't be everywhere at all hours of the day. There will always be those individuals who for whatever reason will always feel they need to intimidate weaker looking people.
You can keep saying that victims need to stand up for themselves till you're blue in the face but a determined bully won't let that stop them. Basically, bullies don't give a shit & don't care how much pain they inflict. Some have even been caught, punished BUT still engage in bulliying behavior.
So what's the answer?

[Caveat Emptor]

In my view, bullies feel inadequate / inferior themselves and compensate for that by picking on somebody they and others perceive to be weak in the hope of "fitting in" / being admitted into a certain group they perceive to be "cool" and "popular." As long as people feel inadequate and that there is no other means of coping with that inadequacy, there are going to be bullies.

[fireheart17]

I can partially relate. Being picked on for most of primary and high school...in primary school, the kids just kept saying "oh, we were joking etc." yeah...so how is provoking a reaction in another person fun?!
High school for the first two years was all out bitchiness. I bought in a photo of my primary school friends to show to some classmates...one girl had the nerve to ask me how much I paid for them to pose with me. I'm so glad I moved schools after that

[Lace Neil Singer]

If bullies are so bad that they make their victim consider suicide or turn to self harm, drugs or alcohol, then the bullies should be expelled. Harsh I know, but seeing as I had to leave my school at fifth year and find a new school cuz of bullying that the school did sod all about, I feel that it's unfair that the victim is the one who has to find a new school.

From third year upwards, I hit back. I was suspended for fighting for a week; after this, I had to do my lessons in the deputy head's office or the library and was treated like a troublemaker. The bullies were not punished; at least, not severely and the school was in the end treating me as the instigator.

[Flyndaran]

I think part of the problem is that some people are just bully magnets. I was even the fat nerdy kid but no one really tried to bully me ever.
My girlfriend, on the other hand, was constantly picked on throughout school and into adulthood.

[Giggle Goose]

The answer, simply put, is to have parents actually raise their own children...instead of leaving it to schools. There are some great teachers who will do all they can about problems with bullying, but a lot of them get told to mind their own business by the parents of these children. I've worked in public schools, I know.

I'm not saying that a lot of teachers and administrators ARE NOT to blame, but a lot of children don't even communicate with their parents these days. I was a "latch-key" kid of a single mom, but God knows if she got a phone call from my teacher about anything she would whoop my ass. All parents need to be more involved with their kids' lives...but the real challenge is how we can actually get today's parents to realize that.

[Boozy]

I think part of the problem is that some people are just bully magnets. I was even the fat nerdy kid but no one really tried to bully me ever.
My girlfriend, on the other hand, was constantly picked on throughout school and into adulthood.

You raise a good point. I knew a lot of kids who met the "criteria" for bullying, but were left alone. Others were teased mercilessly. I tended to watch these things from the sidelines as a child, so I never got a real idea of what was different between the two groups.

It appeared that "fat" wasn't enough to get bullied, but if someone was a bully magnet and happened to be fat, that was the focus of the taunts. Same thing with "geeky". I knew one kid who was ostensibly bullied because he was obsessed with dolphins, but another boy who also really liked dolphins was left alone. It's still a mystery to me.

[Pedersen]

I knew one kid who was ostensibly bullied because he was obsessed with dolphins, but another boy who also really liked dolphins was left alone. It's still a mystery to me.

The "bully magnet" is pretty simple to understand: It's fear. And with the bully magnet thing, it's actually a vicious cycle of fear.

Basically, the kid starts out with some degree of fear. The taunts begin as they always do: Some sort of "joke" amongst the kids. However, the one who is afraid doesn't react the same way as the others. The kid shrinks back, hides, and in general shows their fear of the joke.

Once that happens, the bullies see it. They know that this person is safe to taunt in any way they wish. They have the ability to control by exploiting the fear. They go in, and the fear grows. With more fear comes greater ability for the bully to act in any way they choose.

The cycle continues, with the victim forever becoming more afraid, and the bully being less afraid of repercussions. In one very specific way, the victims invite the behavior by continuing to be afraid.

This is also why people with stories of being bullied have three possible endings: Death (either suicide or homicide), the violence is returned to the aggressor (the victim lashes out, showing the bully that the fear is gone), or the victim is removed from the ability of the bully to exercise the control of that fear. In each of those cases, the cycle is broken.

So, how to fix this? For any given bullying victim, their are two needs: Controlling the bully's behavior around the victim, and building up the self-confidence of the victim to the point where the fear is gone.

The typical response of the authority figures around the victim amount to stuff like "He just needs to get a thicker skin" or "She brought it on herself" or "He has to learn to defend himself", all of which are, disturbingly enough, true. But that is where said authority figures stop. If they would actually teach these things to the victim, and show them how to gain the confidence they lack, then bullying would end.

Unfortunately, very few of those figures understand the need to teach these victims how to cope with their own fear. And that's the worst part of all. These kids are afraid, and are taught (through the inaction over dealing with their fear) that they are supposed to be afraid. That just sucks.

[Flyndaran]

The "bully magnet" is pretty simple to understand: It's fear. And with the bully magnet thing, it's actually a vicious cycle of fear.
....

Not in the case of my love muffin. She never felt fear. She felt anger at the magnetism. She defended herself sometimes to injury of the bullies.
That sometimes stopped that one, but others would take thier place.
I had severe shyness as a child, positively brimming with nerdy fat kid fear. But again, I never had any problems with bullies.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I escaped the fear cycle when I started fighting back. The physical bullying; slapping, pinching, tripping, hair pulling etc stopped, but the verbal continued to some extent. Not so much as before, as now the tables were turned and it was the bullies who were scared now; they were scared of picking on the weirdo and getting their arses handed to them.

I can honestly say that it was just that school that I had any problems. I got on well at both my mixed primary and the mixed school I went to after leaving the all girls school. I got on well at college. I guess the main factor is that I firstly had undiagnosed Aspergers which made me an automatic target simply for being different to everyone else, and also being a girl who found it easier to relate to boys rather than girls. Even now I still only have a few female friends; a hell of a lot of my friends are male.

[Slytovhand]

The other problem, which has only been touched on, is that the authority figures (teachers, etc) can't be around when these things happen, and aren't really in a position to take one side over the other. Do they just automatically believe anything a child says to the ignorance of anyone else??

I'd suggest that the teachers have a 'personal development' lesson or 2. Bring up the idea that bullies only bully because they have the esteem issues, and that functional sane human beings don't do that sort of crap to each other.

[BroomJockey]

Bring up the idea that bullies only bully because they have the esteem issues,

Ha. No. That might be true for some bullies. But in my experience, not even for most. They just enjoy power. Being a bully gives you power, both over those you terrorize, and those who suck up to you.

[Slytovhand]

Yes....?

This contradicts what I said... how, exactly?

The need for control and power is an esteem issue. It's an outward expression.. I'm content within myself, so I don't feel the need or desire to control others (in fact, the opposite - let everyone be empowered). Ask them - what would they do, how would they feel, if they couldn't control others, couldn't abuse power over others...

I'll reiterate -

and that functional sane human beings don't do that sort of crap to each other.

[BroomJockey]

The need for control and power is an esteem issue.

Uh, no, it isn't. It can be a manifestation of one, yes. But there are reasons beyond "I'm so lonely, won't someone love me" to be a control-freak. For one, there's genetic components. Alpha-status in the pack. Put down those lower than you, and you get in charge. Second, some people just really like to have things how they like them. Hell, call it a surfeit of esteem, if you want. They think that what they want is of paramount importance. To simplify the bullying issue down to "bullies just need a good friend" is a grave discourtesy to the entire issue.

As for your "reiteration," I think we have different definitions of both "functional" and "sane." Sane implies a lack of pathological mental disorders. Just having low self-esteem isn't pathological. "Functional" means "able to participate in society." Last I checked, most bullies were still able to obtain food, converse with people, wear clothing, go out in public, etc. So bullies are both functional and sane. Now, they may not be entirely human, depending on how you want to define that.

[Slytovhand]

Now, they may not be entirely human, depending on how you want to define that.

Oh, don't worry, I'm not trying to say 'all you need is some good friends, and that'll fix all your problems'... but people work by seeing what works (for any given definition of 'works') and keep using that until it's proven not to work. Having an authority figure tell someone that their life technique of bullying is a fail will pull some wind out of their sails.

Yeah, we have slightly different definitions of 'sane'... as well as extremes. I see most of humanity as insane... wars are a great example of humanity's insanity. Remaining in bad situations because of a 'fear of the unknown' isn't a great example of the smart thing to do, either.