Another form of death penalty

[BroomJockey]

We've had a number of threads on the death penalty, and some well-formed views on that, so here's a variant to throw at the board.

I read about how they're working on a pill to erase traumatic memories, and in sci-fi, you always read about memory tampering and such, so how about this:

Instead of physically killing a person, we induce total, irrevocable amnesia. They remember nothing of who they are or what they've done. Then after the mind-wipe, time is devoted to teaching them a useful skill in a field they may find interesting.

Now, this would allow for the punishment that some camps desire. After all, the person who committed the crime ceases to exist. This would allow for rehabilitation of hardened, unrepentant criminals and the criminally insane. It would also allow for the state to go "Oh crap, we fucked up and that guy was innocent." It wouldn't be great, since really, it'd amount to "here's a bunch of money, please don't be too mad." And you'd need rules and relocation to prevent people from informing the mind-wiped about who they were, of course.

The major downside I see is if people from the families of victims ran in to the wiped and had to see that person's face, new personality or not. I could see some not being able to deal with a non-physical death.

So, what do you think?

[DesignFox]

Sounds too much like Demolition Man to me...

I dunno how I feel about it. The experimentation it would take to get this stuff "right" could take years and do a great deal of irreparable harm...

How do you really release someone like that back into society...? Do you fabricate a whole new life for them? Drop them on the other side of the world?

What about people using this technology in bad ways? How do we prevent that...?

All I've got are more questions.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Would it be possible to reverse the process, so if a person was innocent, then they wouldn't suffer by having their mind wiped?

[AFPheonix]

It does seem like quite a bit of effort compared to just letting them rot in prison. Like Design Fox said, how much do we invest to get these people back functional again? How much does it erase? Do they remember speech? Potty training?

Would it be less cost-effective than life in prison?

[MaggieTheCat]

I think in theory it would be a good idea, as overall it would eliminate a lot of bad stuff that happens to prisoners, such as brutality/rape/murder in prisons, overcrowded prisons, prisoners escaping, etc. But there are a lot of flaws/questions, which people have already brought up. Mine would be this:

What if someone committed a heinous act (murder, rape, take your pick) and was sentenced to this amnesia punishment. They get moved across the country or whatever and start a whole new life. But a few years later, they commit th same, or similar, or even not similar but equally heinous, crime, even though they had NO memory of their previous crime? I'm not even trying to get in to nature vs. nuture and that some people may just be "wired" wrong -- what if it was a complete fluke, 100% coincidence that this person committed two terrible deeds? What makes people do these things in the first place? Can this amnesia drug guarantee that it will wipe out whatever was in the criminal's mind that caused the original crime? And if such a thing did happen, where someone committed two of these acts, the second of which was after their memory was wiped, what would the authorities do with them then?

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Seems like it could work with a lot of effort. The only real problem I'm seeing is keeping them away from people who knew them.

I suppose they could live in enclosed compounds exclusive to 'the wiped'

Also the making sure people don't use the tech for bad things, same way we keep people from getting super viruses from underground bunkers. Strict control and oversight.

[Greenday]

A lot of stuff can be considered cause by genetics. What good would induced amnesia do for those cases?

[BroomJockey]

How do you really release someone like that back into society...? Do you fabricate a whole new life for them? Drop them on the other side of the world?

Do it like Witness Protection. Relocate to somewhere not frequented by the previous identity, nor anyone who knows that person.

Would it be possible to reverse the process, so if a person was innocent, then they wouldn't suffer by having their mind wiped?

I'd say no, it wouldn't be reversable (hence "irrevocable" ), because if it was easily reversible, it would be possible for crime syndicates to reverse engineer, or steal the cure and keep sending them through the process. Even ignoring that, it'd be cruel to the families of the wiped, imo, constantly dangling the fact that the person they knew could come back, rightfully convicted or otherwise.

It does seem like quite a bit of effort compared to just letting them rot in prison. Like Design Fox said, how much do we invest to get these people back functional again? How much does it erase? Do they remember speech? Potty training?

Would it be less cost-effective than life in prison?

Well, amnesiacs tend to remember speech, abilities, and so on. They just have no memories. Since we're inducing this, imagine that it's more targeted and will specifically retain everything but their identities. Seems to me the ability to teach someone for 3 or 4 years would be a lot cheaper than keeping them locked up for 20+, since afterwards, they're out contributing to society.

A lot of stuff can be considered cause by genetics. What good would induced amnesia do for those cases?

None, which is why you'd still have life imprisonment or the traditional death penalty.

[linguist]

I'd say no, it wouldn't be reversable (hence "irrevocable" ), because if it was easily reversible, it would be possible for crime syndicates to reverse engineer, or steal the cure and keep sending them through the process. Even ignoring that, it'd be cruel to the families of the wiped, imo, constantly dangling the fact that the person they knew could come back, rightfully convicted or otherwise.

i think it would be just as cruel to the families of the wrongfully convicted to know that nothing will ever bring their loved one back. how would you propose compensating not only them, but the person who now has lost their previous life for no reason?

[BroomJockey]

how would you propose compensating not only them, but the person who now has lost their previous life for no reason?

That would be the bit in my original post "Oops, here's lots of money." As for "cruel to the other families," in this fashion, it wouldn't be any different from the current death penalty, where the person is, you know, DEAD. At least this way, you could also go "Err, here's money, that's your family, have your old life back, even if you can't remember it." I don't see how it's really any worse than the regular DP when it comes to the "criminal"'s family.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Yeah, I'm going to throw in with Broom in that it really wouldn't be worse save for a situation where someone can't deal with the dichotomy of it (is that the right word?) but that is offset by those who would take comfort in the fact that the person is still physically alive.

[Flyndaran]

Problem is that such an idea is impossible. Memories don't work like that. Things aren't recorded in a first to last formed series. They aren't even recorded in a specific part of the brain.
Real world retrograde amnesia is a mental disorder, never created in a purely physical way.
Cute idea though.

[Greenday]

None, which is why you'd still have life imprisonment or the traditional death penalty.

Traditional death penalty? I don't exactly like it in the first place, but if one group gets to live a normal happy life, and the other group is put down because of their genetics, I'd be out protesting for getting rid of the death penalty. Isn't that pretty much the definition of eugenics anyway? I'm pretty sure that's been ruled immoral by most of society.

[Flyndaran]

...Isn't that pretty much the definition of eugenics anyway? I'm pretty sure that's been ruled immoral by most of society.

Preventing the passing on of severe genetic deformities is immoral? Choosing to not spawn because I may pass on some early death disease is immoral?
Then your society is wrong.

[BroomJockey]

Traditional death penalty? I don't exactly like it in the first place, but if one group gets to live a normal happy life, and the other group is put down because of their genetics,

I'm not a fan of the death penalty either, but I doubt it'd be instantly banned on the advent of this ability. As for "put down because of their genetics," no, they're being put down because they served a penance for their first crime, and yet the punishment didn't serve as a deterrent. I'd prefer they simply be incarcerated for life, no parole, but like I said, I don't think places with the RDP would get rid of it.

ETA: Eugenics was the process of weeding out those with defective genes, preventing them from procreating, and encouraging those with superior genes to breed. I don't see how committing murder twice would prove it's geneticly caused, rather than just deeply ingrained past memory, or some such. Also, they'd have had the chance to breed beforehand. Killing someone after they have kids is NOT eugenics.