Punishment in Schools

[guywithashovel]

From my understanding, most schools use detentions as a form of punishment. When I was in school (I graduated from HS in 2000), you could either get noon detention, where you would have to eat your lunch in seclusion with an administrator, or you could get after school detention, which required students to stay after school for an hour and sit quietly in a room. When I was in high school, they also had "isolation," which was basically an all-day detention where students were cooped away in a room all day (instead of going to class) and required to remain silent and work on their school work. When students got "isolation," their teachers were asked to send them their assignments for the day.

Debate point: I'm just wondering what everyone thinks would be most effective in schools.

Personally, I think the detentions could use a little "roughening up." Instead of having them do nothing but sit in a room for an hour after school, maybe they could make them do some work around the school building, like cleaning the bathrooms, mopping the floors, washing off desks, etc. (the dirtier the work, the better )

[Greenday]

We had a variety of punishments at my schools:

Two types of after-school detentions
- One where the teacher has you stay for 15 minutes so you miss the bus and have to call mommy and/or daddy for a ride home, then have to explain WHY.
- Hour and a half detention which was the official version of detention. Parents had to sign a notification of the detention.

In school suspension (can't go to class, but must go to school and do all your classwork in a spare room)
Out of school suspension, where you had to make up work, but wasn't really a punishment because it's just like skipping school except for it being on your record.

Expulsion

My middle school and grade school also had lunch detention where you had to sit at a small table right in front of everyone and everyone knew you were in trouble. Sometimes they made you do extra work during lunch and you couldn't go out for recess.

[telecom_goddess]

Breakfast club anyone?

Stay in school all day saturday....that would teach 'em.

[guywithashovel]

When I was in middle school, there was a punishment called "Saturday School." It was a detention that took place on Saturdays. The kids would be required to come to school on Saturday for it. But I don't think it lasted all day. I think it was just during the morning, like from 9am to noon. My high school didn't have anything like that, though.

I also think the whole idea of suspending kids from school is a little messed up. It just doesn't make sense to me to give kids time off from school for misbehaving. Sometimes the kids who are suspended don't get to make up the work they missed, but most kids who get suspended probably don't care much about their grades, anyway. When I was in high school, a guy in my class skipped school and got suspended for it. He skipped school, and then got an additional two days off for it. That doesn't make sense to me.

[powerboy]

When I was in high school (also graduated 2000), we had an ICS. It was In School Suspension. Doing nothing all day in a room with a teacher. I do like the idea of the people in detention doing some yard work around the school.

[Greenday]

Hm, I forgot about Saturday detentions in high school. Not sure what you could do to get one, but it was from 9-12, and your parents had to stay with you. If they didn't, a warrant was put out for them.

But yea, the best kind of punishment will be one that takes away a kid's free time outside of school. In school suspensions doesn't affect that, since they are going to be in school regardless. Out of school suspension means less time at school, which is good to them. So do something that makes them suffer and take away free time.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Doing something would be preferable to this kind of detention that my old maths teacher favoured; no-one ever played up in her classes more than once. O.o

You'd have to sit in your seat, with your arms flat on the desk and sit completely still and silent, not saying a word, for half an hour. O.o Doesn't sound like long, but trust me, sitting there competely still for half an hour seems like the longest thing in the world when you're doing it. You do not screw with a teacher who can do that to you.

[lovlybones]

I'm not sure if any of you have actually experienced the suspension choices of detention...but they are pretty tough to be in a room all day not talking to anyone, so I think thats definitely punishment enough.

doing lawn work is like prison punishment...and I think they get paid for that if i'm not mistaken

and for someone to tell you to sit with your arms flat on a desk...they can't really make you do anything you don't want to, why give in to the power? lol

just my opinion...

[guywithashovel]

But yea, the best kind of punishment will be one that takes away a kid's free time outside of school. In school suspensions doesn't affect that, since they are going to be in school regardless. Out of school suspension means less time at school, which is good to them. So do something that makes them suffer and take away free time.

When I was in high school, I got in-school suspension (or as we called it, isolation) once, and it was because I had been late for class three times. I didn't think it was that bad, but then again, I was a pretty introverted person (and still am, even though I may not seem like it on this board). I kind of think that a punishment like that would have different effects based on the kid's personality. In high school, I heard many kids talk about how much isolation sucked. But most of the ones who hated it and said it sucked were very extroverted and outgoing. For a person with a personality like that, having to sit quietly in a room all day would probably be quite unpleasant.

Funny thing about my high school's in-school suspension (isolation): During my freshman year, the designated room for isolation was in the building that housed the school's mechanical drawing lab. That building was air-conditioned. The school's main building was not air-conditioned, however. After my freshman year, the school decided that it wasn't fair that the kids in isolation got to sit in the air-conditioning all day while most of the rest of the kids sat in the hot school building (ya think?), and so they moved the isolation building into the main building.

[violetyoshi]

The problem I have with detention, is that anything can get you detention. It can be from something as mild as being late to class, as well as bullying another student. Although in some cases the latter leads to suspension.

Also, from my experience, there was no consideration for children with Special Needs when it comes to detention. There isn't understanding that these children may have a higher sense of anxiety, and fear of not being able to go home again, or being trapped.

Detention is really holding students hostage against their will to teach them a lesson. Only in a place where the laws of the outside world do not reach, is this considered okay.

When I was in 3rd grade, I was told I had to stay after school, even despite crying until I was red in the face the teacher and teacher's aid I had would not let me go home. I recall they were even laughing, at a crying, suffering, terrified child. These are the people they hire as teachers.

Since then I was afraid to go to detention that I wouldn't be able to go home. I knew logically that wasn't true, but I had anxiety problems, and that form of punishment simply is not appropriate for someone like that. Frankly, most forms of punishment meant for Neurotypicals (normal) kids, aren't suitable for special needs children.

How do they expect someone to function, under the stress of being unable to have the basic human rights, such as to use the washroom, or to move around. Sure you can say, hey it's not Guantanamo! I agree with that, but there is a great deal of psychological stress involved none the less.

It's ridiculous to suggest that a person who already is emotionally more sensitive due to having a condition like Asperger's Syndrome, is going to learn anything from such archiac forms of discipline like detention, other than fear. Perhaps for normal students, they are able to manage through it. When it comes to special needs students, however, you are dealing with people who have different levels of tolerance for being controlled.

I doubt detention is good for normal students, although there are some that will keep misbehaving until they are taught a lesson. It's inhumane to suggest, that a student who reacts in fear and starts crying at the thought of detention, is going to benefit from it. It's the opposite, they will become zombies, afraid of showing any independant thought, or doing anything without permission in fear of getting detention again.

This may not be true for all Aspies, since I read Lace's post saying she went to detention. It is true for a good deal of them however. You can't treat someone with special needs as if they're Neurotypical, whenever it suits you. Whenever it makes your life easier.

I had a teacher told me after I fell asleep during free time towards the end of school, that I was lucky he woke me up, or I'd be locked in the school all night. So now I was terrified of sleeping during free period. After having to get up for school at 6 am and being exhausted all day. What did I learn from it? Well not to do that behavior again, although I certainly feel training me like a dog, made it impossible for me to focus on any schoolwork without constant fear and anxiety I'd be punished.

[AdminAssistant]

Violet - so what are the schools supposed to do? Not punish kids? Go back to just handing out swats on the butt? If you're going to take away detention for some kids, you have to take it away for all. I mean, crap, what are schools supposed to do? There has to be some system to maintain order.

For me, it was extremely effective. I only got detention once, and the absolute shame of it was enough for me to make sure I never mouthed off in class again. To some of my friends, it wasn't a big deal. But part of that is that my parents were so hard on me...that one detention was a huge disappointment for them. Of course, they used to threaten to ground me if I got a B on a report card, so maybe they aren't the best yardstick..... (Their argument was, "We know you're an A student, so we expect A's")

[LeChatNoir]

I would take various forms of detention over physical punishment any day. I started elementary school following the year that they stopped paddling children in the principal's office. It was a public school, and my mom said she never would have sent me to that school if they still practiced physical punishment. As she said, and as I believe, no one has a right to lay a hand on my kid except me.

In highschool, we had the standard detention programs. After school detention, in school detention/suspension (usually in week long sessions), and Saturday detention. I got an after school once, for forgetting to wear my school I.D. a third time. I actually enjoyed it. It gave me the opportunity to sit quietly and do my homework, and it was all done by the time I got home. I was kind of a book worm

I don't think disciplinary systems in schools are perfect, but I think it gets the job done. Although I do recall some repeat offenders trying to get in-school suspension just to get out of a certain teacher's class.

[violetyoshi]

Violet - so what are the schools supposed to do? Not punish kids? Go back to just handing out swats on the butt? If you're going to take away detention for some kids, you have to take it away for all. I mean, crap, what are schools supposed to do? There has to be some system to maintain order.

I know it's stupid for me to think schools, despite claiming to have support for special needs kids, would be able to take their individual issues into account when it comes to punishment. It's easier to tell them to get over who they are, and to mimic Neurotypicals, instead of finding ways of communicating when someone did something wrong, without inducing emotional trauma.

[Lace Neil Singer]

and for someone to tell you to sit with your arms flat on a desk...they can't really make you do anything you don't want to, why give in to the power? lol

just my opinion...

Cuz the alternative is your parents being told, and you being in bigger trouble? I'd love to see you apply your theory in the courtroom; that old judge can't tell you to sit still in the dock and not speak while he's speaking, go tell that judge he can't tell you to do anything you don't want to!

[anriana]

I loved In School Suspension. When we had to read stupid books (A Wrinkle In Time in 10th grade English? Really? I love that book, but it is more suited for the audience it was written for - children - in an academic environment) I could just read the book I wanted to and if I got caught I could go sit in a quiet room and read it some more.