Punishment in Schools

[lovlybones]

for a newbie, I thoroughly enjoy this thread. thank yous to everyone involved...

[AdminAssistant]

Mkay, thinking about all of this...

If someone has been diagnosed by a medical professional with Aspie's or ADD or something else, where the student can function in a normal classroom, then the teacher should be made aware of it, and the medical professional should provide the school with appropriate instructions. Note, medical professional, not the parents. Too many parents would say things like, "My kid is special and so they shouldn't have homework". Needs should be accomodated to the extent that they do not disturb the rest of the class. Being exempt from group work? Fine. Permission to get up and wander around whenever your please? Not so much.

[blas87]

I'm not sure what kind of schools ya'll went to, but we had special classes for special kids. I believe "ED" classes were for kids with all the Neurodiverse symptoms. And they had their own detentions and the like.

I personally thought in school suspension and suspension itself was a riot. I skipped too much school, so I got to get out of more school? Yahtzee!

And I always got the treat of getting the dumbest teachers as being the ones in charge of the ISS rooms, as they were always up and leaving to go get more coffee or talk to the other teachers with free periods at that time, so I could just slip out my copy of Cosmo and read that....or just read whatever books I wanted, or write notes.........

[violetyoshi]

I don't understand how this is any way related to the post you quoted or the rest of the thread. Pederson's post didn't use any masculine language. Are you saying that as a female gamer you're used to people not believeing you're really female because so many people claim it?

Yup, because 9 times out of 10 I'm assumed male, despite having violet in my screename, because for most people it's unfathomable a woman would game.

[anriana]

Violet is a female color?

[violetyoshi]

Just cause someone doesn't have disabilities you can't see doesn't mean they aren't there. Perhaps I would've done better in life if I wasn't put in special ed. Maybe then when I was so obviously depressed they would've paid attention, instead of just assume it's looking for attention.

Now, Autism is a spectrum, meaning there are people who are higher functioning and lower functioning. Many times someone with Asperger's Syndrome can have behaviors similar to lower-functioning Aspies and they need support.

I'm fully responsible for my actions, my problem has always been how other people seem to get by with not being accountable for theirs. You spend your life being told something is wrong with you, while everyone around you seems to get off on being cruel, you start to wonder why you don't get the same thrill as others by condemning people socially.

As for unwilling or unable to follow rules, most Aspies follow rules so closely that becomes a problem in itself, as well as telling on other students who don't follow the rules. The problem isn't Aspies following rules, it's teachers deciding to let the rules slide for cetain students, and our inability to understand rules for some and not for others.

I'm sorry I can't take a pill and suddenly desire to socialize with others, and I'm sorry that I refuse to deny the reality that I am different. I deal with situations and challenges that most people don't consider in their daily life.

This isn't about getting out of being responsible for my actions at all. It's about future special needs children, being able to go to public school without fear. Without being retaliated against because they're an easy target, and being punished for not having the brain of a Neurotypical.

I also have a handwriting disability. I was told I would be put in a room, for an hour where I would have to write non-stop. Again this may seem petty to you, but I didn't want to have to suffer through pain, for what being a second late to school? If the school I went to, treated special needs students well, they'd have them stay after school and do work that they were capable of doing. You don't know how frustrating it is time after time telling teachers you having a handwriting disabliity, that when you write too long you feel real pain in your hand, and that it's impossible for you to finish written work within a certain period of time. I say real pain, because it seems people will deny someone pain unless they can prove it.

I don't know how to convey this to you in a way you would be able to understand or not mock. So, I hope you at least try to show some empathy concerning this, rather than keep insisting this is all cause I'm some brat trying to get out of personal responsiblity. It'd be nice to be able to not have the issues I have, but I wouldn't give up who I am to be normal either. Even if it would mean being given the benefit of the doubt, rather than to be assumed as a troublemaker.

[Flyndaran]

Yup, because 9 times out of 10 I'm assumed male, despite having violet in my screename, because for most people it's unfathomable a woman would game.

What does a color or flower have to do with vaginas?
I don't remember that from my health class.
Seriously, relax. Not everyone is sexist even though I admit it is often a subtle bigotry.

I have horrific social phobia and generalized anxiety.
Only some teachers allowed me to write a whole report instead of a tiny five minute public oration. One reluctantly allowed me to sit down so I didn't freak out too much.
Maybe some of my problem is just jeolousy.
But we must always remember to consider the feelings of those without mental disorders. They deserve consideration too.

I think Broom is just pointing out that a lot of people aren't even tested and are either self-diagnosing themselves with Aspergers or are just considered to have Aspergers without testing. ...

I could have easily self-diagnosed with asperger's. It would have been so easy to grab such a label just to have a name to call all my problems. It's so alluring.
I have major problems with social situations, general anxiety with things changing too quickly, trouble even recognizing facial expressions. On the surface I fit the diagnosis, but I don't really have it. I've just got a small group of problems that mimic asperger's.

...It's like using the word "breeder." ...

I use that word to denote those that NEED children rather than just want them. I'm hetero by the way though I know some gays use that to denote straights.

[Pedersen]

Yup, because 9 times out of 10 I'm assumed male, despite having violet in my screename, because for most people it's unfathomable a woman would game.

For me, personally, I didn't (and don't) care you if are male, female, or a hermaphrodite. For this debate, at least, your gender really doesn't matter. In fact, for most debates, it doesn't matter.

Just cause someone doesn't have disabilities you can't see doesn't mean they aren't there. Perhaps I would've done better in life if I wasn't put in special ed. Maybe then when I was so obviously depressed they would've paid attention, instead of just assume it's looking for attention.

Now that's getting into a debate on the quality of teachers and school administrators. I knew some great ones that I still think of fondly. I also knew some atrocious ones that I don't think I could ever bring myself to help. The mere thought of them still generates rage within me, and if I could, I would happily go back in time and deal with them with the knowledge that I have now. They need to fear their students, just so they'll treat them like human beings.

But that's a whole other thread. I think it was even started by Shroo.

I'm fully responsible for my actions, my problem has always been how other people seem to get by with not being accountable for theirs. You spend your life being told something is wrong with you, while everyone around you seems to get off on being cruel, you start to wonder why you don't get the same thrill as others by condemning people socially.

Yeah, that's a familiar story around these parts. Read some of the older threads, and you'll see quite a few stories about people who were bullied and denigrated in school, by fellow students and administrators alike. Saying that it sucks doesn't really do it justice either, since far too many kids feel like they can't take it, and do kill themselves. I'm one of the lucky ones. I made it out of the school system alive and able to rebuild my self esteem. That right there is more than too many get.

I'm sorry I can't take a pill and suddenly desire to socialize with others, and I'm sorry that I refuse to deny the reality that I am different. I deal with situations and challenges that most people don't consider in their daily life.

An important thing to remember is that "most" is not "all". Something else you might not have thought of: People on message boards like this tend to have a higher percentage of the neuroatypical disorders, mainly because forums are much easier to process mentally. No body language, no hidden cues, it's all just the text on the page. As such, you are much more likely to find people who are at least tolerant of those sorts of issues online than you would offline.

This isn't about getting out of being responsible for my actions at all. It's about future special needs children, being able to go to public school without fear. Without being retaliated against because they're an easy target, and being punished for not having the brain of a Neurotypical.

You want to talk about being punished for being different? After the Columbine shootings, the outcasts of high schools across the USA found themselves sitting in high school offices, waiting to talk to principals, vice principals, guidance counselors, and sometimes the police. Why? Because someone else who happened to fall into the same category as themselves finally snapped, and everybody panicked.

Again, I'm lucky: I had graduated about a decade before that. Without that, though, I know I would have found myself facing down the same issues, and wondering if someone would make something up just to get me in trouble, or if something I had said a month ago would now be viewed in a different light, and I'd be facing down police asking me questions about something I had never planned on doing.

It's a different type of being outcast, but it's being outcast nonetheless. And that sort of outcast faces choices that most people don't face, as well. And, just like neuroatypical people, those choices are not always easy or comfortable.

I also have a handwriting disability. I was told I would be put in a room, for an hour where I would have to write non-stop. Again this may seem petty to you, but I didn't want to have to suffer through pain, for what being a second late to school? If the school I went to, treated special needs students well, they'd have them stay after school and do work that they were capable of doing. You don't know how frustrating it is time after time telling teachers you having a handwriting disabliity, that when you write too long you feel real pain in your hand, and that it's impossible for you to finish written work within a certain period of time. I say real pain, because it seems people will deny someone pain unless they can prove it.

I'm not one of those people. Having that sort of disability sucks. I hope that it's only true of handwriting, and the use of a computer alleviates that issue for you?

[Flyndaran]

...
An important thing to remember is that "most" is not "all". Something else you might not have thought of: People on message boards like this tend to have a higher percentage of the neuroatypical disorders, mainly because forums are much easier to process mentally. No body language, no hidden cues, it's all just the text on the page. As such, you are much more likely to find people who are at least tolerant of those sorts of issues online than you would offline.
...

I resemble that remark. I'm a virtual shut-in. You almost certainly won't see me outside in public that often. I even have my groceries delivered.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I'm glad in fact that I wasn't at school when the Columbine shootings happened, cuz I was publically a huge Manson fan, and I bet I would have been made a scapegoat; despite the fact that there wasn't really a connection. -.-

The detention I got from the maths teacher was for passing notes in class to one of my two friends; the only friends I had at school. The maths teacher got a bug up her arse and gave us both detention due to the fact that we'd written our notes in code and she couldn't do her usual thing; ie read the notes out in class to embarrass the offender.

I actually didn't really care if I got detention; most detentions, you were just told to sit quietly and do homework. I was perfectly happy to sit quietly; it didn't bother me at all. I hardly ever got detention; and if I did, it was for something minor, like passing notes or talking in quiet time. That is, til I got to third year and according to the headmaster, suddenly morphed into a troublemaker.

[Nyoibo]

Can someone explain to me how this is not derogatory? How it's not the type of belittling tone most Neurotypicals use, to humilate special needs people?

Can you understand how "neurotypicals" might see being called that all the time derogatory?

You know, you really don't know what it's like to be different, to be told the way you are is wrong, and that you need to change what you cannot change, the way your mind works.

This one got me when I read it, then I had to go do my clinic hours, so I've had time to calm down.

That is the stereotypical "speshul snowflake" thinking and response right there, yo have no idea what other people may have experienced in their lives, tell you what, I'll see your Aspergers, raise you ADHD, clinical depression and being bi-sexual, hmm, think I've never been told that I'm wrong, that I need to change? Go on, I dare you to tell me I don't know what it's like to be different or told I'm wrong.

Now, Autism is a spectrum, meaning there are people who are higher functioning and lower functioning. Many times someone with Asperger's Syndrome can have behaviors similar to lower-functioning Aspies and they need support.

I think you mean Aspergers can have similar behaviours to High Functioning Autistcs.

[Flyndaran]

...
I think you mean Aspergers can have similar behaviours to High Functioning Autistcs.

Last I heard Asperger's was a form of high functioning autism, and not a separate disability.

[Nyoibo]

Last I heard Asperger's was a form of high functioning autism, and not a separate disability.

It's a autism spectrum disorder, there are questions about the difference between AS and HFA (high functioning autism)

[violetyoshi]

Last I heard Asperger's was a form of high functioning autism, and not a separate disability.

That's not true, there is a huge difference. High-functioning people with Autism, can function, but otherwise have the same characteristics as lower-functioning people with Autism. Basically they can talk, and hold a job like one at McDonald's, that's about it.

Can you understand how "neurotypicals" might see being called that all the time derogatory?

So daily "normal" people are put into a society, where on TV Neurotypicals are endlessly seen as the butt of jokes, or assumed to be stupid. Not to mention how they are constantly referred to as "retarded" or "slow". As well as a drain on the economy, and have groups like Autism Speaks seeking to find the gene for them, so as to erase the burden of Neurotypicals from the Earth.

I don't think so, that's what happens to people who are Neurodiverse.

This one got me when I read it, then I had to go do my clinic hours, so I've had time to calm down.

That is the stereotypical "speshul snowflake" thinking and response right there, yo have no idea what other people may have experienced in their lives, tell you what, I'll see your Aspergers, raise you ADHD, clinical depression and being bi-sexual, hmm, think I've never been told that I'm wrong, that I need to change? Go on, I dare you to tell me I don't know what it's like to be different or told I'm wrong.

So if you want to continue referring to people who are Neurodiverse as "speshul" then I should be able to continue referring to you as Neurotypical right? Why should I stop using what you consider a demeaning term, when you refuse to do so on your end?

I think you mean Aspergers can have similar behaviours to High Functioning Autistcs.

I'm not one of those people. Having that sort of disability sucks. I hope that it's only true of handwriting, and the use of a computer alleviates that issue for you?

I went to school long before computers were as pervasive as they are now. Using a computer does help a lot though.

[BroomJockey]

So daily "normal" people are put into a society, where on TV Neurotypicals are endlessly seen as the butt of jokes, or assumed to be stupid.

Have you watched TV? Ever? Reality TV shows are basically built on making "regular" people do stupid shit for the amusement of others. Sitcoms feature buffoonish stereotypes of geeks (Steve Urkel, Family Matters), white trash (Rosanne & family, Rosanne), foreigners (Balki, Perfect Strangers), and more. Crime dramas such as Law & Order or CSI depict neuroatypicals in a positive light, or as victims of bigotry and a cruel society. Don't let your bias blind you to the depictions present in media. Neuroatypicals tend to come off better than most in mass media. In fact, I'm having trouble thinking of a show where people with mental issues are regularly mocked.