"Mean Mom" jailed

[violetyoshi]

I just saw the video of this on Nancy Grace, and when you see a big enough version of the video, you can see the child putting it's hands towards it's neck like it's going "STOP! STOP!" So clearly I see the child as being harmed by this, it's very disturbing.

[DesignFox]

I've watched this video three times. I still disagree that this is abusive. If you watch really closely, the kid stands up once the mom turns the corner. She didn't drag him very far before he finally decided to stand himself up and walk with her.

If she said, "walk with me or I'll drag you" and then did just that, it seems the kid learned his lesson and stood up to walk. As a parent, if you make a threat, you have to make good on it or else the kid just learns it can get its way by being a jackass.

Also, I love what we are teaching our children with this type of shit. Throw a big enough fit and some random person will call the cops! No need to behave or listen to your parents. Just report them!

Unfortunate things occasionally happen. Once in awhile a child really is being abused. But I DOUBT that 90% of the people we see in public disciplining their children are abusers. Unless I see something truly disturbing I am not going to "err on the side of caution" and report it. False accusations cause way more damage to a family unit and simply clog up our already overburdened systems with garbage they don't need to be worried about. Let's go out and get the real abusers- people who beat their kids and break their arms, people who do serious emotional damage, people who sexually abuse their children. THOSE are the people that need to be looked at, evaluated and arrested!

Even if this truly was a case of the mother getting frustrated, she obviously didn't do any lasting damage to the kid. (he stood up all by himself and walked next to her afterward). She probably won't do it again, and chances are, since she made good on her threat and it caused the kid considerable discomfort, he'll probably never require that treatement again! (well, certainly now she may never discipline a kid ever).

(generic you, not aimed at any one person)
Sorry. If it makes you uncomfortable, if you wouldn't do it to your kid, FINE. Don't do it to your kid. Aren't you a wonderful person.

Stop picking on parents who do what they gotta do.

If I ever got out of line in public, I got warned. If I kept pushing it, I got popped one right in the middle of the store/restaurant. My dad once got fed up with some antics of mine and he warned me. I didn't heed the warning so he lunged across the table, grabbed me by the collar and plunked me in my seat. Of course, by today's standards, he'd probably have been arrested for "grabbing me by the collar and choking me." People on the internet would be saying, "well, he should have gotten up and picked her up properly, how dare he treat his kid like a dog!" Give me a fucking break.

You know what I learned after that incident? SIT IN YOUR FUCKING SEAT AND BEHAVE! Never did cause a problem after that one incident. Hell, I don't even remember him doing it- he's the one who told me about it.

This is why we have all the problems we have today. You can't do a goddamn thing without someone overreacting. Even if I someday decide I want kids, I probably won't have any. I won't be able to discipline them or try and bring them up properly because every move I make will be scrutinized by Jane Nosybody, and CPS will be banging on my door.

I refuse to raise a brat.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Exactly. That is probably why there are so many rude, badly behaved, entitled people around, cuz of this very thing. That child who's being allowed to cry and screech in public will grow up to be that bratty teen who hits his parents when he doesn't get his own way and verbally assaults customer service staff.

Finally able to watch video, seeing as Gaia sorted out aforementioned fake antivirus direct thing, and I was able to remove my blocks. I am still not seeing the abuse. The child got up and walked after; also, the leash was obviously on a back harness and not around the child's neck, as some people are thinking.

I remember misbehaving in a store once. My dad clipped me round the ear, then picked me up and put me in the car with my little brother, who was also misbehaving and also got hit. Guess nowadays, people would be filming the incident on their phones and rushing to call the police, cuz "OMG! That father hit two of his kids!" We were playing up, and stuff got knocked off shelves, so deserved it. Another time, my mum dragged my little brother by the wrists accross a shop floor, cuz he was throwing a tantrum and refused to move. My mum could in no way have picked him up; she's not very tall and he was flailing his arms and legs around. Suppose that too is abuse; wait, my little brother has grown up well and is now teaching English to foreign students in Thailnad. Must be some mistake.

As I touched on before, this child is probably suffering cuz of his mum being taken away and locked up. Guess if something really bad does happen to him, like an uncle touching him inappropiately, he won't be telling anyone any time soon, cuz he won't want his mummy locked up. Kids think that way; they think it's their fault that something happens.

[Greenday]

I've watched this video three times. I still disagree that this is abusive. If you watch really closely, the kid stands up once the mom turns the corner. She didn't drag him very far before he finally decided to stand himself up and walk with her.

I am still not seeing the abuse. The child got up and walked after; also, the leash was obviously on a back harness and not around the child's neck, as some people are thinking.

So what it seems to me is that you guys are saying that as long as the damage isn't permanent, it's not abuse. I'm kind confused about that. If I walked up to my little cousin and kicked him, would that then be ok as long as it doesn't have lasting damage?

[Rapscallion]

There's a difference, I suppose, between assault with intent to inflict injury and action to demonstrate that aberrant behaviour is not going to be tolerated.

Dragging a child in the middle of a tantrum across the floor is not, by my reckoning, abuse. Just kicking/punching for no reason is.

Rapscallion

[Greenday]

I just don't see the difference because even with dragging a child, you are going to physically hurt the child when there is a much better, more obvious alternative (just picking the kid up).

[Nyoibo]

So what it seems to me is that you guys are saying that as long as the damage isn't permanent, it's not abuse.

Are you saying that any form of physical punishment is abuse?

I'm kind confused about that. If I walked up to my little cousin and kicked him, would that then be ok as long as it doesn't have lasting damage?

No, that would be an unprovoked assault and I'm not even going to bother pointing out the differences in that situation and the one in the video and how what you said makes a bad analogy.

[kibbles]

I just don't think because a child is being bratty, that should be a gateway for a parent to do what they want because "hey I am frustrated". I never said a pop on a clothed behind was abuse, or picking a child up was abuse.

But obviously what this woman did was, or else the police investigation would prove her innocence and she wouldn't be in jail now.

[BroomJockey]

But obviously what this woman did was, or else the police investigation would prove her innocence and she wouldn't be in jail now.

And everyone charged is always guilty. Obviously.

when there is a much better, more obvious alternative (just picking the kid up).

And obviously, the mom's fully capable of picking up a child who doesn't wish to be picked up, and carrying him far distances. No chance the kid would flip out and start screaming and hitting if picked up, or the mom's got a bad back for lifting, or anything like that.

[kibbles]

And everyone charged is always guilty. Obviously.

Never said that anywhere in my post. But I believe what she did was abuse, and now she is suffering the consequences of her actions.

And who knows, maybe more stuff will come out in the trial that will either prove her innocence or further prove her guilt.

[BroomJockey]

Never said that anywhere in my post.

Yes you did.

or else the police investigation would prove her innocence and she wouldn't be in jail now.

That means "She was investigated, and charged, so she's guilty."

And what comes out in the trial is irrelevant. You said the investigation was enough. I hope no one ever accuses you of anything, with enough superficial evidence to support a charge. You'd be forced to plead guilty.

[kibbles]

I hope no one ever accuses you of anything, with enough superficial evidence to support a charge. You'd be forced to plead guilty.

I fully admit it was my fault in the way I worded my post. What I meant was that if there wasn't something there that (in my opinion) the police investigation wouldn't have had enough evidence to go forward with the trial. And no I don't mean that because someone is charged they are automatically guilty; but, in this case I think she is guilty.

Not saying anything about guilt or innocence for the moment; but, there was something there that apparently warranted further investigation.

[Lace Neil Singer]

We're not discussing that at the moment tho, real or imagined. What we have is the act itself and, to my mind, that is not abuse. You must be a wonderful person if you've never suffered a single moment of frustration or acted in the heat of the moment.

Maybe later on there'll be an update; evidence of actual abuse might come out, or the mother might be suing the police for wrongful arrest. Would you still be taking the stand you are if the second comes to pass rather than the first?

[kibbles]

You must be a wonderful person if you've never suffered a single moment of frustration or acted in the heat of the moment.

Never said I didn't have a single moment of frustration or acted in the heat of the moment, I haven't said that at all. But one thing that I can say is that I have never dragged a child across a store by a leash/harness that was designed to protect them.

Also, I have said repeatedly in previous posts that the police should check out to make sure this wasn't just a game that the child like the play. But, unless I see evidence to the contrary, I think she is guilty.

[violetyoshi]

I notice it's the people who were physically disciplined coming to her defense. "It worked for me, and the problem is kids aren't being treated badly like I was" sounds more like being envious of kids not being treated roughly, like you were a child.