CPS has too much power!

[Boozy]

That's a very sad story, Squall. Your niece and nephew are very lucky to have you and your wife.

I hope you continue to help them...although I would urge you to reconsider calling CPS. They may be able to help the entire family. Although there are many horror stories about them abusing their power, and I don't doubt those stories, a story like yours is a good example of what CPS is there for.

I have limited first-hand knowledge about children's services here in Canada and none when it comes to the US. But my aunt is a foster mother, and she has said that social services removes children from a home in only the most extreme situations. Often, their goal is to provide education and support to struggling (and sometimes ignorant) parents. And if your brother-in-law is as morally bankrupt as he seems to be, they may be able to provide assistance to his wife in getting herself and the children out of that situation.

[rahmota]

Squall: I will have to say that you are doing the right thing in trying to keep it within the family. Families should take care of each other and when CPS came about too many people began to rely on the government to do the hard things that need to be done. Which is part of the main problem. People have stopped relying on and being close to their family to help them and let the government do things. You are right CPS is the last resort as they will come in and destroy any hope of that family being redeemed or restored.

True the people you are talking about are very self-destructive in the extreme but and I am sorry that they have isolated themselves from their family. That is one of the harsh thigns about our modern society that should be changed as well.

And as for CPS I'll stand by what I said about how they need to be reformed and reorganized and limited in their powers. Also not being able to know and stand in fnt of your accusers goes against one of the cornerstones of the American justice system. If you start allowing accusers to remain hidden then that leads to all kinds of witchhunts and star chamber justice.

Basically whats needed is society to pull itself together, families to start taking care of each other and to only go to the CPS as a LAST and final resort. And for the CPS to be reformed themselves so they are no longer the secret police and are actually an agency that is there to help people maintain the lifestyle and home they choose to have in a reasonable and effective manner.

Boozy: here stateside they have removed children for as simple a reason as one parent is a homosexual. That there is too much laundrey sitting stacked up on the floor , and by too much we are talking about 2 basket loads. My own cousin alomost had his taken just because his trailer only had 2 bedrooms and his 3 kids (1 6 year old and 1 set of 2 year old twins) had to share one bedroom. The larger bedroom of the two in the trailer. (We think it was a vindictive ex friend of his who called on him) but fortunately the family banded together and built an addition to his trailer so that all the kids could have their own bedroom.

So while there are rare and infrequent occasions where CPS might do some helpful thigns for the most part they hurt, harm and come powerstomping into a person's life in their jackbooted thuggish way.

[squall]

The right to face your accuser applies only in a court, not on the accuser's doorstep. Amendment #6:Your SIXTH AMENDMENT Constitutional Right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury ... and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

Until a case goes to court, the accuser in a CPS case has every right to remain anonymous. Any disclosure of this information by officials is in violation of privacy laws.

I would hope you don't mean to confront your accuser face at their residence or anywhere else. Nothing good can come of it. At least in a court-room, the safety of an accuser is not entirely in question.

What do you mean by witch-hunting? Leave it for the courts, not the streets.

[rahmota]

Squall: What I menat by witch hunting was how the CPS comes into a person's house automatically assuming they are the worst case of scum trash and villany they have ever seen. that you are guilty until you proove you are innocent and then they act like they are disappointed if they do not get to destroy your life. About how they come into a person's house and poke and prod and paw over everything and lie and ask misleading questions and try to trick people into admitting they have done somethign wrong or that there is somethign wrong and then get disappointed if everythign turns out ok.

And considering how even if they do not take it to court you are still on trial for your life and your family with them the moment they cross your door a person's rights should still apply.

I guess we'll have to disagree on this as I see them as a dog and waste of society. Villans worthy of an empire of evil than a democratic republic.

[squall]

Not saying I disagree with your view on CPS, only your interpretation of your rights and laws. Amendment 6 explicitly states you face your accuser in a court. That does not mean you have the same right outside of court. Therefore you cannot harass or enact frontier justice on said party. Since I don't know you, I will not try to paint you as something you are not. But consider these circumstances from a police perspective: I know you are an avid carrier of firearms. Not saying anything about your mental state or your readiness to use it, none of us know you that well, and neither do the police. But police have a tendency to assume that an armed person is a potentially dangerous individual in the wrong place at the wrong time given a certain set of circumstances. Yes, it sucks that they can call CPS whenever they want considering they probably aren't even on speaking terms with your family and see you rarely. I don't know what it is like to walk on egg-shells all the time and wonder when the next time CPS is going to darken my doorstep. All I can suggest is mediate through your wife if possible. And document everything. If there is no proof that these lunatic Bible thumpers could possibly witness the things they describe, how can their accusations be considered plausible after so many repeated calls and no ill findings?

Also, If I'm not mistaken, CPS is subject to the 4th Amendment....another words you can refuse a CPS search if they do not have a search warrant. Child custody is considered a seizure. I wrote a thread on your 4th Amendment rights in the politics section. Interesting link on your rights against CPS http://cpsvictims.tripod.com/id4.html. Maybe the kind of revenge you need against them when all else fails is the legal kind....sue them for harassment and filing false cps reports.

[Boozy]

Also, If I'm not mistaken, CPS is subject to the 4th Amendment....another words you can refuse a CPS search if they do not have a search warrant. Child custody is considered a seizure.

Can CPS gain access to your home without your consent (but with a warrant) if they believe a child is in imminent danger?

No biggie if you don't know. I'm just curious.

On TV, you see cops busting into places without warrants when they hear screaming inside. I always wondered if that was accurate or just dramatic license.

[squall]

On TV, you see cops busting into places without warrants when they hear screaming inside. I always wondered if that was accurate or just dramatic license.

That is considered reasonable cause to enter...one of the conditions of police to enter without a warrant. If police hear nothing and see nothing, they have no right to enter without a warrant. I believe CPS and police can obtain a warrant, but they have to go through some trouble to do so.

[rahmota]

Boozy: The proper legal phrase is probable cause. As in there is probable cause of a crime being committed. I was trained in that back when I was goign to be a cop. The thing is if you bust down a door and there wasnt any crime then you can be punished for it. A sticky wicket to say the least.

Squall: Actually merely refusign to allow them to enter is grounds for probable cause (according to their own paperwork) that you are committing a crime and they can be back within an hour with the sheriff and a warrent. Failure to voluntarily cooperate with their investigations means you are hiding something and gives them probable cause to escalate thigns into an official corut mandate and all that jazz.

I'll agree that the regional influence of firearms is different between rural and city areas and the city is where laws come from. Locally the sheriff's department encuorages people to get a concealed carry and be armed as they recognize they cannot be everywhere at once. However reasonable people are not going to be running around dispensing frontier justice. It just makes it easier to defend oneself against the accusations since CPS will not tell you what you are accused of. Which is also IMO illegal.

I'll agree that my interpretation may not be the exactly harvard law school or popular right now but then again morals and ethics are not always popular. I see a person's home as an inviolate private space. A man's home is his castle and he is the lord and master of it. (with the permission of his wife ) A bit old fashioned and anti-social but oh well our society sucks and needs an enema right now.