Disclaimers and Jumping To Conclusions

[the_std]

Inspired by this thread over on CS, I thought I would bring this up. The need for disclaimers, such as

DISCLAIMER: I am ONLY including the people's races because it is important to the story. I have nothing against people of ANY race!

and things like them is a problem that has become huge, not only on message boards, but in society in general. Say anything that could possibly be taken in a negative fashion, and you get bashed by people jumping to the conclusion that, because you didn't say you were a racist automatically means you are a racist. Open and free discussion without feeling the need to censor oneself any time you make a statement that could even remotely be viewed as derogatory/generalizing/stereotyping, is being hindered.

This might be because of the relative anonymity one experiences nowadays, or it might be a shift in how we view other people in relation to ourselves as a whole in society. All I know is that I really hate seeing these little disclaimers on websites like CS, and hearing people say them in conversation, because I know the people who do so are only covering their butts. But then, could it be that people willing to make these disclaimers, willing to bow down to the possibility of paranoia and peer pressure, are making the matters worse? Rather than stand by their statement, they apologize for the way someone might offend themselves by reading it. What would happen if we did it differently?

Now, I'm fairly young (early twenties) and do wonder if this is becoming more prevalent in modern culture, or if it has always been around. Has technology and globalization opened up the doors to people engaging in this kind of behaviour more and more? And what other factors might be encouraging this?

Please share your thoughts.

[BroomJockey]

My thoughts? I'll give you the censored version.

People are overly sensitive about what others think of them, and people are overly sensitive about the feelings of groups they're not a part of. Those are what lead to the disclaimers.

The first, because people so desperately want to be thought of positively. They can't stand any one to think ill of them, especially for a simple misunderstanding. I'm not singling anyone out for that, it's a widespread thing. For some people, it drives them absolutely batshit insane to have someone dislike them. I learned a long time ago that not everyone is going to like me, and I stopped trying to please everyone. Life became a lot more fun when I stopped worrying about being thought of as an ass.

The second is from what I like to call "The Moralistic Minority." They're not moral, but they think they are, and they're not the minority (of virtue that they like to think they are, but they like to think they are. These people take every concept like political correctness, and stretch it so that everyone but them falls short of their definition of it. Any mention of physicalities, and you're discriminating, racist, ageist, sexist, whatever. They're the ones constantly making apologies for someone's behaviour. And they don't know that person. Or why they've acted that way. But fucking hell, they WILL tell you why you're a bad person for thinking badly of that misbehaviour, or they'll point out that not everyone of X is like that, and they personally have had very many experiences that are nothing like what you're talking about, so obviously it was all your fault somehow.

To the first group, I'd like to say: grow a spine. Who cares if some random person you'll never see in real life misinterprets you.

To the second group: Shut the fuck up, you're not helping. Do you even know anyone of the group you're defending? If so, did they *ask* you to White Knight for them on the Internet? Somehow, I doubt it. Stop assuming you're so much more moral than everyone else. Vanity ain't pretty. /rant

[Mr Slugger]

You know from being part of CS in the past I will say sometimes you almost have to say that to keep others from jumping on it. For instance I would get a couple stories about say a couple of black customers. I'd post them and then next thing you know you've got more about black customers, and then some moron would eventually post the wrong tale. So I actually had to attempt to spread stories out a bit when it came to race. Or then if you work in say a town with a larger asian population and you're constantly complaining about asians then you look like you're racist, when you're not.

[Nyoibo]

My view on it is if you feel the need to post a disclaimer then maybe that should tell you something.

[AFPheonix]

To be fair, some people frankly are prejudiced and don't even realize it. After they get dinged a few times, they start policing themselves. Yes, some people take the policing too far.
I think the necessary posting of disclaimers is a lesser evil than some of the stuff I've seen come from some people's keyboards or what I've heard come out of people's mouths without them really thinking about the ramifications of what they've written/said.

[Rapscallion]

My view on it is if you feel the need to post a disclaimer then maybe that should tell you something.

Yes, but what is it that it's telling you? That the poster knows that even if they have no ill intent, they know they'll be jumped on? That they're trying to justify racist opinions by typing those words? I don't know which of those - or any other interpretations - it could be.

It's a fine line to tread. After Ree came up with the trollguard idea and Mike implemented it, we had a rather charmless couple of neo-nazis from a white power board try to invade and troll. Well, one came along and was caught by it after a long-term member had posted some stuff on their forum deridiing members of CS.com. Nightangel did the googling to find them over there, and we checked through the posts of the longer term member to find a large amount of stuff that was certainly themed, but not individually over the line.

That's a bit of background as to why we're on the cautious side these days over on CS.com. It may give a restrictive site in some ways, but we've got reason. It becomes hard to tell the difference between someone who is truthfully telling a tale and someone who is providing the same stories about people of a certain race in the hopes to stir people up.

Rapscallion

[Nyoibo]

I suppose, I make no apologies for what I say, unless it's been mis-understood, I usually think my posts through and am aware that what I say may offend some people, but that's not my problem it's theirs, they can start putting disclaimers on their posts like "I get offended aby everything and will bitch about it".

[violetyoshi]

In a perfect world, the poster would be able to tell his story without fear of being attacked. The fact is most people of "minority" races, and I'm putting it in quotes, since most people believe now White people are becoming the minority. Most people of "minority" races seem to spend their time, trolling the net looking for people to jump on and call a racist.

Now, you can say, that's not true for everyone of a certain race, and I agree. Those people probably don't even bother to make their race an issue whenever they post. Like, I don't announce I'm Jewish with every post I make. I also don't get all upset when someone says something negative about Jewish people, sometimes I even laugh because the person making the comment is showing what a moron they are, and it's funny when morons are too stupid to not reveal themselves.

It seems that when it comes to African American people, that they do have a history of being extremely prejudiced of White people, while at the same time assuming everyone is racist towards them. This leads to people being fearful of African-American people, because they don't want to upset them and be accused of being a racist, or yelled at by them. Then they say it's racist, to suggest people should be afraid of African-American people, because they pull the race card out too often.

It would seem there is a huge lack of understanding that actions have their consequences from African-American people, and I mean the majority, not everyone. However, it would be 8/10 times that a black person would see a White person, and assume that person is going to have a problem with them.

They're creating an environment where people have to feel on guard around them, then they blame them for reacting to that environment. In other words, they're never at fault, they're always the victim.

You can say, well that's true for "minority" races in general, you don't understand what it's like. I went to a rock show in Wisconsin, where these two White Power guys said something about kikes, and I got hugely pissed at them. So yeah, I do know what it's like, and I can understand how in my case I was trying to defend my family there from those two jerks. This was a case though of them intentionally being racist, and not my assuming they were being racist.

When it gets to the point where a group has "cried wolf" so many times, that either nobody believes them anymore, or they're afraid they will end up in their line of fire. It's only reasonable to expect that group of people would be seen as dangerous.

The disclaimer is because, this person is fully aware that even mentioning that the people in the story were African-American, would send up flags for people who want to take out their rage on any White person, just because. It's also because, they don't want those same people, to report their post to the mod and then be banned from the board, simply because that person doesn't like the idea that a White person should be free to speak about an African-American person as if they're not as pure as gold.

The poster shouldn't have had to use a disclaimer, and some African-American people shouldn't be so overreactive to anything a White person says about them. That's not going to change any time soon, the poster is doing the best they can, under the circumstances that they're posting something that may cause a reaction that could get them banned based on false assumptions.

[powerboy]

Sometimes, race is part of the story. If they are meant to be in there, then there should be no disclaimer. It is honestly stupid having one anyway.

[smileyeagle1021]

I'll give a slightly different defense to the use of disclaimers (at least one web forums, can't really say it for in person communication). If I am talking to you face to face and I mention a black/mexican/asian/gay/woman/etc customer, you can tell by my tone of voice and body language whether I am using that as either A) something relevent to the story or B) not relevent to the story, just used as a descriptor, like saying a tall customer or a customer with dark hair, or C) not relevent to the story or even used as a descriptor, but rather racist feelings.
Now, online it is very easy to tell if it is the first case that it is relevent to the story (ie, race card), but the difference between the other two cases is very hard to tell without cues other than just the written word.

[Mr Slugger]

Another thing to point out is sometimes comments are made that sound racist, but aren't really. For instance personally I hate people that fit some stereotypes. Like if you're black and you dropped out of school, knocked up 3 girls, don't have a job, don't pay your child support, but own a lincoln navigator from drug money I don't like you. But no differently that if you were white and doing the same thing, and no differently than if a person fits the "white trash" term. And I can say I don't like the arab guy who runs the corner store near my house because he's rude, but there's another store down the street that's arab owned and the guy is a nice guy. I know more rude white people than I do rude arabs.

But I think too many get hung up on things like race as if that's the reason for things.

[violetyoshi]

Sometimes, race is part of the story. If they are meant to be in there, then there should be no disclaimer. It is honestly stupid having one anyway.

It's stupid that some people feel a need to jump down a White person's throat at any perception they may have that person is racist.

[Boozy]

Do you even know anyone of the group you're defending? If so, did they *ask* you to White Knight for them on the Internet?

That's one of my biggest pet peeves. I hate it when someone proclaims themselves the champion of some group they perceive as "needing" their help. I see it most often with people defending the disabled, as they are a group often seen as being unable to speak for themselves. It's a very condescending attitude.

I'm not saying we shouldn't speak up when we see injustice or prejudice, even if we're not part of that group, but don't pretend you're an expert on the plight of the less fortunate when you're not.

Sometimes when I see a disclaimer, something about the way it's worded strikes me the same way; false and condescending. The attitude is "Look at how enlightened and liberal I am!"

[protege]

Pardon me if I come off a bit blunt here...

Several years ago, over in my LJ, I made a post (a rant, really), about an altercation I had with another motorist on the way home from work. This fool thought I was "following" him through town, since I "took every turn he did." Never mind that I was simply following the detour signs. Anyway, this asshole decided that because I was a white person, that I was going to harass him--he used his car to block the road, and attempted to "intimidate" me.

As soon as I mentioned the guy's race (he was black), I had several people pounce on me over it. Apparently, just *mentioning* someone's skin color is racist--never mind the guy's actions, or the fact that he called me a "white cracka." I got painted as a racist asshole because I referred to the guy as "black." Needless to say, those who pounced on me got told to go fuck themselves.

Pardon me, but are you fucking kidding me? I mean, would they rather I used some other terms--"crack baby" possibly being the *least* offensive I could think of? I *could* have use that term, or another certain racist term. Yet, I didn't want to go down that road. To do so would have only brought me down to his level. I didn't want to do that either. His race had nothing to do with it--he was simply an asshole, or an asshole on meth.

The reason some people get offended about race, is that it all goes back to "white guilt." Sure, white people committed some horribly racist actions in the past. Yet, we didn't invent racism, nor were we the only ones to perpetrate it. Nor were we the only ones to come up with negative stereotypes.

With that said, racism and those stereotypes aren't going to go away...unless certain people (of every color) get over it. I mean, do I get upset over my Irish ancestors not being able to get jobs here? Did I get upset over my Norwegian (yet German-sounding) last name causing nasty slurs to get thrown at my grandparents during WWII? Hell no. I wasn't around then, and most of the people who did those things...are dead now. No point in trying to use that as an excuse. Yet, people get away with such things...because other people feel guilty about such things."

[Nyoibo]

I think the only time I've used a disclaimer is when I've read a post and it's reminded me of a pet peeve or rant and I'll use a disclaimer to explain that it's not directed at one person, but that it just reminded me of something.