Obama's Speech To Schoolchildren

[Fashion Lad!]

That seemed like a footnote to the insanity in the long run and one the White House corrected. The vast majority of the lunacy has been the GOP and the mouthpieces ( Rush, Beck, Bachman, Cloutier, etc ) using all the buzzwords. Indoctrination, socialist ideology, Hitler Youth Brigades, abuse of power, your children are "under attack", fascist, socialist, etc etc.

The only reason Rush, Beck, Bachman and the gang are the loudest is because the media dwells on them. If you keep playing their words over and over again, they're going to be the loudest. They are what YOU make them to be. No one listens they're not heard. The media perpetuates this. You perpetuate this. This isn't the majority of conservatives want. This is what the extreme-leftist seem to think conservatives are.

Talk to average-Joe walking down the street. If he's a conservative, he'll more than likely tell you that speech was good. Bachman, Beck and Rush are nuts. He wants Obama to succeed. He may be for or against health-care reform.

[BroomJockey]

You perpetuate this. This isn't the majority of conservatives want. This is what the extreme-leftist seem to think conservatives are.

Bold claims there. Yet the people GK mentioned are what are put up by YOUR media to the world. And then none of the "moderate" conservatives are up there fighting them. There's no loud condemnation of the extremists from the conservative camp. There's not even a rumble of discontent with the mouthpieces being broadcast outside your country. So when YOUR media broadcasts YOUR crazies and doesn't show any right-wing disagreement, YOUR media is doing YOUR country a disservice in international venues. How's anyone outside your country supposed to know that it isn't what conservatives are? Especially when you can go online and find Conservapedia? An entire site devoted to Conservative views and beliefs!

Check out the stated view of liberals: http://conservapedia.com/Liberal

Highlight, from the top of the page, for those who don't want to click

A liberal (also leftist) is someone who rejects logical and biblical standards, often for self-centered reasons. There are no coherent liberal standards; often a liberal is merely someone who craves attention, and who uses many words to say nothing.

These are the people you are letting speak for you in international forums. You can say you disagree with them all you want, but until you and others of a less bat-shit nature take hold, calling people "extreme-leftist" and other partisan terms (which you've professed to despite, btw) for thinking of your side in such manner is only confirming that the crazies are espousing the correct view.

A less convoluted sentence: They speak for you, whether you like it or not, because you're not decrying them loudly enough, so you can't legitimately call people uninformed when they actually think those views are accurate.

Spend more time railing against the people who have co-opted your end of the spectrum, and less time railing against the "lefties."

[Gravekeeper]

I'm going with Broom on this one.

The only reason Rush, Beck, Bachman and the gang are the loudest is because the media dwells on them. If you keep playing their words over and over again, they're going to be the loudest. They are what YOU make them to be.

No, it's what you make them to be. I'm Canadian, like Broom I'm just watching from the outside in. Fox News is the highest rated news network in your country now beating both CNN and MSNBC combined. There's no question Fox leans to the right on a scale ranging from Conservative to Outright Batshit depending on the show. So I don't know where this "majority of conservatives" you speak of is, but they're a very quiet lot and seem to be content to go along with sinking ship of crazy that is the GOP.

You can rant and rave all you want at us, but we're telling you what the rest of the world is seeing. It's not up to us to change that, it's up to you. ;p

[Fashion Lad!]

Bold claims there. Yet the people GK mentioned are what are put up by YOUR media to the world. And then none of the "moderate" conservatives are up there fighting them. There's no loud condemnation of the extremists from the conservative camp. There's not even a rumble of discontent with the mouthpieces being broadcast outside your country. So when YOUR media broadcasts YOUR crazies and doesn't show any right-wing disagreement, YOUR media is doing YOUR country a disservice in international venues. How's anyone outside your country supposed to know that it isn't what conservatives are? Especially when you can go online and find Conservapedia? An entire site devoted to Conservative views and beliefs!

Check out the stated view of liberals: http://conservapedia.com/Liberal

Highlight, from the top of the page, for those who don't want to click



These are the people you are letting speak for you in international forums. You can say you disagree with them all you want, but until you and others of a less bat-shit nature take hold, calling people "extreme-leftist" and other partisan terms (which you've professed to despite, btw) for thinking of your side in such manner is only confirming that the crazies are espousing the correct view.

A less convoluted sentence: They speak for you, whether you like it or not, because you're not decrying them loudly enough, so you can't legitimately call people uninformed when they actually think those views are accurate.

Spend more time railing against the people who have co-opted your end of the spectrum, and less time railing against the "lefties."

Why do you keep mentioning my side. I really don't have a side. I hate both RNC and DNC for what they've become.

And MY media. My media wouldn't have a clear bias. The crazies of the right are put in the spotlight to ruin the right. When they have people in the media saying that they will do whatever they can to make sure Obama succeeds is THEM! NOT ME! The media doesn't represent me.

GE which owns NBC which gave Obama a lot of favorable coverage is now a key player in the Obama cabinet. So do not FUCKING TELL ME IT'S MY MEDIA! It's Obama's media.

*** http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIW8L...eature=related ***
*** http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjkgMiVKMog ***

Future Pennsylvania U.S. Senate Candidate Chris Matthews publicly declares that his "job" is to use his position as a media figure to make the Obama Presidency a success. He indicates he will not criticize or question things Obama does as a journalist. Matthews intends to challenge U.S. Senator Arlen Specter in Pennsylvania in 2010.

NOT MY FUCKING MEDIA!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6CSi...eature=related
http://chuckhustmyre.blogspot.com/20...-ministry.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8SEe...eature=related

[Gravekeeper]

Really? Dude...really? Did you seriously just play the left wing liberal media card? God I should stop talking to you right there, but ok. Fine.

Let's see, you cited 5 sources.

#1: CNN reporting on the perception of a media love fest for Obama.

If you repeat a myth enough times it becomes truth in people's heads. Thats how the whole bloody American political system works. Swift boating? Iraq WMDs? The "left wing media bias" shit is a GOP talking point every election. The only possible point you could argue is the amount of coverage which was skewed to Obama. However....

To the Tyndall report.

Tyndall Report (7/25/08), a news-monitoring service whose numbers reveal that in the first half of 2008, McCain received 52 percent as much network coverage as Obama (203 minutes vs. 389 minutes).

Measuring the first six months of each election year, Democratic challenger Michael Dukakis got only 32 percent of the coverage garnered by then-Vice President George H.W. Bush in 1988; incumbent Bill Clinton got only 28 percent of the coverage Republican challenger Bob Dole got in 1996. Incumbent George W. Bush got 85 percent as much coverage as Democratic Sen. John Kerry in 2004—the closest thing to parity in early campaign coverage since Tyndall has been keeping track.

In every year Tyndall studied except 1988, the candidate of the party that didn’t hold the White House has gotten more coverage. It’s logical for the media to give more coverage to a less familiar candidate; having a longer, contested primary campaign also helps. Considering that Obama’s nomination battle continued for a full four months after media commentators pronounced McCain’s primary victory, this year’s coverage gap is in fact surprising for how small it is.



#2: Chris Matthews.

First up I heard him say something different than you apparently. He said "My job is to help this country. To make this work successfully because this country needs a successful presidency.".

Irregardless, Chris Matthews is a political commenter/pundit ala Beck or Rush. Although not quite as big a douche ( Though Matthews is still a douche ). He's allowed to bring his opinion into it. Because thats what a pundit does. This is why he hosts his own talk show just like Rush and Beck.


#3: A McCain campaign commercial.

Seriously? Seriously? Come on. See #1 for reference to perpetuating a narrative till people believe it. Hell, throw in Palin's Death Panels(tm) while you're at it.


#4: A Right Wing Blogger

Really? A blogger? One who uses the terms "Ultra-liberal" and "socialist"? Whose comparing the White House to Stalin? Right. A guy who apparently supports the raving loonies that were screaming down people at the town hall meetings.

No. Just no.


#5.: Lou Dobbs.

Also a political commentator and pundit. Also kind of a douche. Hence he has his own show.



Honestly I'm stepping out of this thread now. No offense Lad, but you just proved yourself part of the same right wing we were talking about. You also seem to raging against an opponent that's not actually in this thread. As nothing any of us has said anything that deserves the screeching caps lock you're displaying.

It seemed almost like you were just waiting for someone to say something in the thread you could pounce on and start this up.

[BroomJockey]

Why do you keep mentioning my side. I really don't have a side. I hate both RNC and DNC for what they've become.

See, you claim to "hate" partisan politics, then keep bringing up left and right and conservative and liberal, and how you're not any. You've said you identify conservative. THAT IS YOUR SIDE. You've said it. I didn't mention RNC or DNC at all. I'm talking "political spectrum." I'm not talking "small 'c' conservative vs. big 'C' conservative." I'm talking right vs. left, since that's the side you've identified to.

Alas, yes, it's your media, because you're American. Don't want to own it, move elsewhere. Sorry, but that's how it works. We're Canadian, so it's sure as shit not our media. Further, what about my point of "this is the face your country is presenting to others" and "you should be shouting them down if you don't like how they're presenting the right side of the political spectrum"? Instead you go off on a rant about how there's more *gasp* left wing bias in the media, thus further perpetrating that dichotomy of partisan politcal ranting you've professed to hate.

[Fashion Lad!]

It seemed almost like you were just waiting for someone to say something in the thread you could pounce on and start this up.

No, I'm bringing up that the media trashed Bush Sr. for doing the same as Obama. And you guys are absolutely bewildered that it's happening. And you're saying that most conservatives are calling Obama a fascist because of this.

It's not Chris' Matthews job to make the administration a success. It's just not. The media shall play no part in the success or failure of an administration. Their job is to get the facts then report them.

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla...UCLA-6664.aspx

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKq4388GbxM

And the only true conservative that was running, got a smear campaign from the same media you choose to defend.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jZTd9j6_yg

[Fashion Lad!]

I'm editing this because what I said was strictly in the heat of the moment. I had time to cool down.

I've gotten more than enough "your spokes-people". But right now, hate falls down on the Republicans and Conservatives and that was evident by the last election. Most of the heat is going to be on them.

You haven't seen me get upset about what Glenn Beck has said or what Rush has said because there really hasn't been any conversation on them. I get upset about what they say too.

And yes, I do believe there is a media bias. It can go both ways, but I'm finding it to be more and more a bias for the left. But, you can be disgusted with me and not talk to me. I'm good with that. I've not held much of a conversation with you anyway.

I will not leave my country just because I don't like something, that leaves me no opportunity to try and create true change. Not change that Obama says we can believe in, but true change.

Never, ever EVER call me dude.

[Gravekeeper]

What the heck are you even talking about now?

It's not Chris' Matthews job to make the administration a success. It's just not. The media shall play no part in the success or failure of an administration. Their job is to get the facts then report them.

No, no its not. You're missing the definition of media. It's the journalist's job to get the facts and report them. Everyone else is free to say whatever the hell they want. I believe that's in your Bill of Rights. Matthews is a pundit. He can have an opinion. Yeah, he's a douche. They're all douches to some degree or another. Problem is Beck and Rush are followed as gospel by a lot of the right wing While Matthews and Dobbs are still kinda considered douches by a lot of the left wing. But they all have their own shows and are free to rabble on as they see fit. That's half the problem. But muzzling any of them would be infringing on their rights. The problem is no matter how crazy the shit they say is ( Look at Beck, he IS insane. Period. Watch him for 10 minutes and you can see he's unstable ) its taken as gospel by the extreme right and even affecting the moderate right these days. While the extreme left wants what? Access to abortion, the right to marry other guys and legalized pot?

The problem is the crazy douche bag side of the media is the most popular side by far now and its been adopted on board by the GOP. So like I said, whether you like it or not, that's the side claiming to represent you as you are defining yourself ( Conservative ). Don't get pissy at us for pointing it out. Get pissy at them for taking over the terms.

The inherent flaw is your journalists are becoming more like your media. IE whatever gets the ratings and the cash. All your news is becoming more sensationalized and its easier to just repeat whatever talking points each party gives you than it is to investigate yourself. Throw in a healthy dose of repeating whatever stupid topic idiots are talking about ( What's the first lady wearing today? Is Obama tellin our kids to be commies? ).

And yes, I do believe there is a media bias. It can go both ways, but I'm finding it to be more and more a bias for the left.

Of course there's bias. Each of these pundits on their shows is catering to his or her audience and whatever that audience's bias is. Problem is more that Fox likes to call that "news" as well. But left biased as the majority? I don't buy it. Straight up simple ratings show otherwise. Especially not in the claim of vast a liberal media conspiracy shit that the GOP was frothing at.

Don't make me quote Colbert on you. =p

But right now, hate falls down on the Republicans and Conservatives and that was evident by the last election. Most of the heat is going to be on them.

Well of course it is. Because they fucked the country up for the past 6-7 years and much of the GOP still won't admit or move away from the positions that caused said fuck ups and pissed people off to begin with. Instead now they can shift it all to Obama and blame him for not fixing a 6 year mess in 6 months.

It doesn't help that the level of sheer crazy has not only ramped up, but moved into the main stream and been accepted by the GOP. Any semi-rational person looking at it from the outside in is going "WTF?!" at this point.

And the only true conservative that was running, got a smear campaign from the same media you choose to defend.

I don't even know what point you're trying to make. Half that clip is him being bashed by Fox News. Which is blatantly right wing and yes, does whatever the GOP wants. Which was snub Ron. Ron Paul got thrashed because he didn't go along with the GOP party line. That doesn't prove left wing bias or right wing bias. It proves you have a two party system with zero interest in letting anyone that doesn't tow the party line get a foot in the door. Especially on the GOP side. Democrats would naturally attack him for being a Republican. But as he butted heads with Republicans too, Fox news sunk him to the point of not even inviting him to one of the GOP debates they were hosting. Because Fox News is a bunch of arseholes that pretty much parrot whatever the GOP wants.

On the other hand, Ron did appear on CNN a fair number of times that I recall.

[Fashion Lad!]

Like a politican, you have problems keeping your word. No worries, I'll address you later when I get done setting up my server.

[AdminAssistant]

First of all, no one can be truly unbiased. Even the most even-keeled, level headed journalist (or, in my field, historian) is going to slant a story somewhat. Especially when you have a talking head like O'Reilly, Lou Dobbs, or Wolf Blitzer reading the news. You could hand the exact same copy to those three guys, and they would all give that same copy different readings.

We're a two-party country. Independent parties have no power and no voice in this country. Sorry, but that's how it is. And I've become so tired of conservatives trying to pull the "Libertarian" card. Libertarians are less-batshit-crazy Republicans.

Look, we had a Republican president for 8 years. One that was initially elected under shady circumstances and proceeded to 1) start an unprovoked and Constitutionally-questionable war, 2) run the US economy straight into the ground, and 3) completely trash the reputation of the US in the rest of the world. The majority of Americans were so damn happy to get that hillbilly trash out of the White House that they took it out on the Republican Party, such that there is a Democrat in the White House and a Democratic majority in both houses of Congress. Over time, the political tide will turn again, and Republicans will once again be in control. But right now, the Republicans/conservatives are acting like children. They don't like that they lost and no longer wield the unlimited power they did during the Bush reign. So, they're banging their fists on the table crying, "No more taxes! No health care! WAHHHH!"

Same thing with this speech Obama made. The conservative media immediately sent out the rallying cry. Some schools refused to air the speech. Some parents kept their kids home from school. To prevent them from hearing the message to study hard and stay in school. Gee, man, what a leftist, socialist message. Wouldn't want kids from poor backgrounds to actually get a decent education and move up in society, now would we?

[Gravekeeper]

Heh, friend of mine just pointed out the guy they trotted out to rebut Obama's health care speech, Reb. Charles Boustany, is a Birther that tried to buy a British lordship from some con artists.

You know the entire thing ( US politics ) would be hilarious to watch, from a distant, if it didn't affected so many people's lives. -.-

[Fashion Lad!]

First of all, no one can be truly unbiased. Even the most even-keeled, level headed journalist (or, in my field, historian) is going to slant a story somewhat. Especially when you have a talking head like O'Reilly, Lou Dobbs, or Wolf Blitzer reading the news. You could hand the exact same copy to those three guys, and they would all give that same copy different readings.

We're a two-party country. Independent parties have no power and no voice in this country. Sorry, but that's how it is. And I've become so tired of conservatives trying to pull the "Libertarian" card. Libertarians are less-batshit-crazy Republicans.

Look, we had a Republican president for 8 years. One that was initially elected under shady circumstances and proceeded to 1) start an unprovoked and Constitutionally-questionable war, 2) run the US economy straight into the ground, and 3) completely trash the reputation of the US in the rest of the world. The majority of Americans were so damn happy to get that hillbilly trash out of the White House that they took it out on the Republican Party, such that there is a Democrat in the White House and a Democratic majority in both houses of Congress. Over time, the political tide will turn again, and Republicans will once again be in control. But right now, the Republicans/conservatives are acting like children. They don't like that they lost and no longer wield the unlimited power they did during the Bush reign. So, they're banging their fists on the table crying, "No more taxes! No health care! WAHHHH!"

I agree with most of what you said, but I don't think it's as one-sided as you would like to believe. Republicans did not have unlimited power. Democrats right now pretty much have unlimited power. It's arguing within their own party that's stopping them, not the Republicans.

Where a conservative will say gays are bad and should not be allowed to get married, a libertarian would say, "it's their life. It's their choice. We are not at liberty to decide." A Conservative is much more willing to jump in and spend the money of others to save some, whereas a libertarian would not.

You were probably too young when it happened, but I assume a few of the members here weren't. What were you thinking G.H.W Bush gave a speech to school children to stay and school and stay off drugs? Where you backing the President or were you backing the media that jumped his shit? The Democrats launched an actual investigation with committees and such into this matter.

Mind you, it wasn't the speech it was the lesson plan. When that got dropped the sane ones dropped that matter as well.

[Rapscallion]

Getting a bit heated and personal in here, folks. Can we keep it to the facts, please?

Rapscallion

[Wingates_Hellsing]

By my definition Libertarians are the actual governmental conservatives whereas the Republicans have become social conservatives... two very different things. Modern republicans spend money on what they want and liberals spend money on what they want. Given a choice between the two, I would choose liberals to do the spending with republicans for a bit of 2nd amendment protection.

And while we can't really get true independents, we *can* get moderates. As Obama and McCain are (generally). Though what with the earmarking, interest groups, and miscellaneous tacking-on of laws or $$$ to every scrap of paper that moves, there' really isn't a way to get a pure directive out of the system anymore. Which in turn means less efficient spending across the board and really confusing laws.

All in all, the grand majority of federal cash is spent on things which are basically good (military, salary, NASA, Medicaid, Social Security) and in the common interest of our population.

Back on topic, though, I think half the issue is Rs going ape-shit for no reason and half is media and public opinion magnifying the aforementioned ape-shitting. It wouldn't be nearly so bad if people didn't lend it so much undue credence and attention.

P.S. I walked over to the school, but my councilor said graduates weren't allowed