Obama's Speech To Schoolchildren

[Jason]

Obama Moderate?!?

. As Obama and McCain are (generally). Though what with the earmarking, interest groups, and miscellaneous

Seriously?!?!?
Obama a Moderate?... President Obama is one of the most left leaning presidents we have had since FDR, if not ever. I agree that McCain is a moderate Republican. I would also agree that Obama presented himself as a moderate during the election.
Before the stock market crashed last fall, McCain was ahead by 5+ points in the polls, when the market crashed, the blame squarely fell on the Republicans.
Before you say I'm am a right wing Republican nutjob, I woulld say I identify myself as a Reagan Conservative. The Republican party spent money like drunken sailors when they were the majority.

We all will just have to wait until 2010 to see how things work out. Will the Deomocrats retain control of both houses? Will the Republicans gain control in the House and pick up more seats in the Senate? Time will tell.

[guywithashovel]

My party?!?! What the hell? When did I ever claim to be a republican?! I'm a registered Independent, but my beliefs are more in line with the Libertarians. Don't make assumptions because I make a pissed off remark about the hypocrisy of the democrats. And I'm mad as hell that republicans are pulling the same shit.

(snip)

I do love the fact that just because I tend to have more conservative beliefs, people will group me with the RNC. Do you know why I love it? Because it's back to the petty, partisan politics. I hate both DNC and RNC. Both of them are corrupt, both of them are full of hypocrites.

Perhaps you should start labeling yourself as a libertarian rather than a conservative. I don't mean to tell you what to do, but I suspect that you may have fewer problems with people mischaracterizing you that way. Fact of the matter is, when most people hear the word "conservative" spoken in a political context, they think of people like Rush Limbaugh, Jerry Falwell, Ann Coulter, and Pat Robertson. They also tend to think "Republican," just like they tend to think "Democrat" when they hear the word liberal used in the same context, even though most Democrats are not liberals.

[Rapscallion]

Seriously?!?!?
Obama a Moderate?... President Obama is one of the most left leaning presidents we have had since FDR, if not ever.

By the standards of the US, sure. By the standards of the UK or Canada?

Rapscallion

[Fashion Lad!]

By the standards of the US, sure. By the standards of the UK or Canada?

Rapscallion

I think when we're talking about the political leanings of a President, we really need to go off the American definition. Just as I assume anyone from another country would like us to view it how they see it in their country. Otherwise, I think we really are arguing different things.

Do other countries have political problems? Never mind, I'll start a new thread because I'm curious.

[Talon]

By the standards of the US, sure. By the standards of the UK or Canada?

On this subject, I am shockingly in agreement with Fashion Lad. Obama is the US President, so he should be judged by American standards.

That said...

Seriously?!?!?
Obama a Moderate?... President Obama is one of the most left leaning presidents we have had since FDR, if not ever.

I don't think so.

Who are the most influential liberal/left voices in America today, who have the platforms to reach hundreds of thousands of people? People like Olbermann, Maddow, Colbert, Stewart, Maher, Moore. I'm quite sure all of those people have called for the prosecution of Bush/Cheney's.

If Obama were as left-leaning as you think, he wouldn't be taking the disgustingly weak position of "lets all just move on" in regards to Bush/Cheney's alleged wrongdoings. If he were so left-leaning, he would be telling the intellectually and morally bankrupt Republican party to go to hell, rather than calling for cooperation with a party that will vilify him for anything and everything he does.

On that note, sadly I do understand why Obama won't go after Bush/Cheney. Too many Democrats would go down with them. Pity, even if prosecution made him a one-term President, it would be great for the country in the long run if everyone were called to account for their actions. But ask a politician of any stripe to sacrifice his ambitions for the good of the country? For my next trick I will fly around the room under my own power.

[Fashion Lad!]

On this subject, I am shockingly in agreement with Fashion Lad. Obama is the US President, so he should be judged by American standards.

There are times when I can make sense to more people than just myself.

Anyway, Obama's voting record in 2007 proved him to be the most "liberal" senator. Actually, it sounded like he was primarily a party-line voter in 2007.

http://news.nationaljournal.com/articles/voteratings/

[Rapscallion]

I think when we're talking about the political leanings of a President, we really need to go off the American definition.

I can see where you're coming from, but I was more trying to put perspective on what other people were saying.

Always amuses me when people try to accuse him of being a socialist. Heh - doesn't strike me as being that close to that definition. Closer than any other US president I can think of, but still some way to go.

Just the view from this peanut gallery.

Rapscallion

[lordlundar]

Always amuses me when people try to accuse him of being a socialist. Heh - doesn't strike me as being that close to that definition. Closer than any other US president I can think of, but still some way to go.

Yeah, You think Obama is a socialist? We'll throw Jack Layton to you and show you a REAL socialist.

[guywithashovel]

To be honest, I even hesitate at calling Obama a liberal much less a socialist. Yeah, he is a bit left of center, but he's still fairly close to the center. In fact, he's actually starting to feel like a black Bill Clinton (to me, anyway).

And while his status as liberal or whatever should "technically" be judged by US standards, I think it's important to consider other standards for perspective, mainly because our ideas regarding these categories seem pretty isolated. For example, let's say you have someone who is pro-choice, supports same-sex marriage, supports universal healthcare, and believes religion should be kept out of government. Here in the US, that person would be labled "far left." But if I understand things correctly, in Canada or England, that person would be considered "middle of the road."

[Boozy]

Yeah, You think Obama is a socialist? We'll throw Jack Layton to you and show you a REAL socialist.

I hate Jack Layton. But that's for another thread.

It IS interesting to see how "liberal" and "conservative" is defined on either side of the 49th parallel. You wouldn't think that two countries that share the same continent, relatively similar demographics, and 80% of the same media consumption would have such different opinions about such things.

[Fashion Lad!]

And while his status as liberal or whatever should "technically" be judged by US standards, I think it's important to consider other standards for perspective, mainly because our ideas regarding these categories seem pretty isolated. For example, let's say you have someone who is pro-choice, supports same-sex marriage, supports universal healthcare, and believes religion should be kept out of government. Here in the US, that person would be labled "far left." But if I understand things correctly, in Canada or England, that person would be considered "middle of the road."

I agree. And I'm trying harder to keep that in mind. People responding to my other thread is really helping me with that. It's still easy to forget and just think they're left-wing lunatics.

[lordlundar]

I hate Jack Layton. But that's for another thread.

A good chunk of the party he leads hates him.

[BroomJockey]

Eh, Layton keeps Canadian politics moving right now. Apart from him, none of the party leaders really have a personality right now. After all, how many jokes have there been about Harper being robotic? And half the time I can't even remember Ignatieff's name. And never remember how to spell it. And who's even leading the Bloc? Say what you will about Cretien, but at least people knew who he was. Mostly 'cause dude choked a protester. And Stockwell Day was a twat, but he had showmanship. Shows up for a press conference on a Sea-doo? Or Preston Manning.

I just look forward to the day we've got wacky party leaders again.

[Boozy]

After all, how many jokes have there been about Harper being robotic?

But what about all those sweater vests? They were supposed to make him appear human-like and warm!

Seriously, though -- If we're going to discuss Canadian politics, we should start our own thread. This one is about the American President.

[MystyGlyttyr]

I'll just lay my position like this. I hate Obama. Fucking HATE HIM. There is just something I do not and never have liked about the guy. I can't believe anyone actually voted for him, personally. But...they did, I'm sure they had their reasons just like I did, and he's president, okay, fine, so long as he doesn't fuck up anything too much, we can put up with him till it's time for the next election and we'll see what happens.

And that being said, my only issue with the speech was the fact that politicians, pretty much as a whole, on any side of the line, are lying liars who lie. And my concern was that even though everyone was all about "Oh yeah it's just gonna be a speech about staying in school and all that!" was that once the speech actually rolled around, it wasn't going to be anything like what they said it would be. Besides that, I don't care if the president, whoever it is, wants to tell kids to stay in school. My only worry was that it wouldn't be like that, apparently, it was, so eh, next issue.

Also, just because someone listens to Rush Limbaugh does not make them a brainless Republican freak. Just wanted to get that out there.