Gangs

[Greenday]

Alright, what the hell is up with these stupid, sissy, wusses who think they are cool because they are in a gang? Sure, you must be cool and tough, because you have to have a bunch of other people with you to beat down on one person. Being in a gang doesn't make you tough at all.

I mean, a gang will take ANYONE. So it doesn't say much to be part of a gang. They'll take 8 year olds, what makes other people in the gang so special?

I remember seeing on CS how a group of Staples workers got shot at in California because their work-shirts were red and they were in the Crips territory. They must be real proud of themselves saying, "Yea, we shot at a bunch of defenseless people, who were wearing a rival's color because it's their uniform." Says all sorts about your courage.

In conclusion, it is my belief that these gang-bangers, especially the wannabes, need to grow a pair, and actually do something with their lives, instead being a bunch of wimps.

[AFPheonix]

I am of the opinion that society in general needs to grow a pair and actually do something about the social and economic inequity that leads to gangs.

[Greenday]

Hm, how about we create a gang-hunting season, where it's legal to shoot anyone in a gang?

[AFPheonix]

Because more violence will solve the violence problem we already have?

There is a middle way.

[Will-Mun]

A gang couldn't take Jackie Chan alone... Or Jet Li, or Spike Li...


I suggest that you watch "Bastards of the Party" somehow. It was an HBO special that ran a few months back. It goes into the history of the Crips and Bloods of LA, and how it lead to gang banging today.

You'll be surprised to learn that these gangs were actually started in attempts to better the community...But it just became about violence.


Gangs are easy to explain. It's because of our Monkey Brain. We're a pack species. Or, we were ages ago. A closely knit group of people that spend a lot, if not all, their time together. Think about your clique. Your closest friends that all know each other.

Thats how devotion to groups, sports teams, and even states and countries can become so... baseless. You feel you are apart of this group, and without hesitation you blindly defend it. Thats why riots break out at big sporting events... Why 'Patriots' and 'Hippies' often lead to slug matches or in the very least heated shouting matches...

It's simply the primal brain telling you "it's us or them."

[rahmota]

Well oddly enough I'll agree with both AFP and Willmun. The "gangs" where originally formed to help the members of the community, protect the community and as a result of the economic and perceived discrimination against the members of that community. Think Gangs of New york or the irish dock workers and pennsylvania dutch coal miners. All "gangs" as in a group of people banded together.

Today's gangs are somewhat different yet the same. They are members of the community who dont see a hopeful future , a way out of the poverty and circle of violence they get caught in and wind up falling in with gangs for a sense of identity, purpose and association with a group that values them. Especially sicne it seems to them as american society as a whole has abandoned them.

[Aldous]

All gangs were orginally for the sense of brotherhood, when no one would care about you. I'm not 100% sure how they degenerated into what they are today. It is sickening to hear of all the crimes committed in the name of a gang. There should be stricter laws concerning gangs, but most importantly there should be an attempt to destroy what created the gangs, poverty. I'm talking present gangs, not the past gangs, though the same really fits.

[protege]

I've heard all the excuses about gangs. "Oh they're poor people;" "they've been disciminated against" etc. Sorry, but cry me a freaking river. Don't want to live in the ghetto? Get off your ass and work then! I know several people who are poor, yet choose *not* to live that lifestyle, and *still* got out of the "vicious circle."

Another problem, is that there's too much glory associated with gang violence, and "getting respect." Sorry, but I choose to respect those who work hard to escape those problems, not some stupid poser who can't pull his pants up.

BTW, it's not just the "inner city" crowd that's into gangs. Some years ago some white 'burb kids tried to form a gang. Didn't work out too well--after they'd attempted to rob someone, one of the kids got shot, and the borough quickly clamped down on the rest.

[rahmota]

Well I'll disagree with you Protege as that who don't like being poor well then get a job attitude just doesnt work for a lot of people in a lot of places. Not to mention everytime I hear it I want to just scream about how arrogant, superiority complex, discriminatory and intolerant that sounds. Like its the poor person's fault they are poor in each and every case. Not every poor person is a lazy worthless bum who just wants to sit around and do nothing.

This society is set up to punish people who are not of the right social class, of the right social background and/or the right social attitude. That is the main part of the problem right there.

What needs to be done is to change society, change the attitudes and work on rebuilding things from the ground up so that people will not have the trouble getting social equality.

[AFPheonix]

There's a difference between the white kids in the suburbs and the black kids stuck in the inner cities. The white kids actually have an opportunity, probably have some disposable income, possibly have a 2 parent family or if not, then a safety net to fall back on, etc etc.o

The kids in the inner cities? They get shit schools with not very much funding. In Portland, there's fewer people living within the city so the Portland school district gets fewer tax dollars.
Many have unstable home lives. Many have to deal with much more violence and drugs and whatnot in their neighborhood than we do out in nice, white suburbia.
Many do not have a decent role model beyond their older brother who may be providing for the family through peddling pot to the white suburban kids.
These kids still have a lot more barriers than you or I did growing up, not to mention that black males are still feared, regardless of whether the individual has actually done something to us or not.
See where I'm going here? Society in general needs to start a number of reforms if we want something to get done.
I'd personally start with school funding state wide. I'd go from district by district funding to money pooled into a state fund and then doled out. I'd also probably restructure the bureaucracy that governs schools, slim it down so less dollars get spent on middle management and more on classrooms. NCLB needs some tweaking, too, but I believe there's already a thread on that lil' piece of crap legislation.

[protege]

Like its the poor person's fault they are poor in each and every case. Not every poor person is a lazy worthless bum who just wants to sit around and do nothing.

I'll give you that one. Not everyone is able to work. I didn't mean to come across like that. Hell, my own family was poor for years. My father had his own advertising agency. It went well for a few years. But, once most of his clients, namely the steel mills and manufacturing plants here, started closing, it became more and more difficult. Throw in that he was over-qualified, and in his mid-to-late-40s, and he simply could *not* get a better job. My parents struggled for years before he went back to school and became a teacher.

I'll also give you that the Pittsburgh city schools suck ass--one got busted for only having a *30%* graduation rate last year. Part of the problem with those schools, is simply that the city doesn't have enough cash to fund them. For years, it was just "business as usual." In other words, nobody gave a shit or tried to change anything. They've already closed or consolidated several. However, that didn't stop several kids from working hard, and trying to better themselves. If they can get out of that mess, more power to them.

Another problem that sometimes occurs, is when "outsiders" try to buy property in poor neighborhoods. I've heard stories of people trying to fix things up...only to have their homes or businesses destroyed. Because of this, it's not often that people *want* to move into those neighborhoods.

It's puzzling to me why it seems that the poorer neighborhoods always seem to have crime issues. Locally, nobody seems to know why

For example, there's a suburban housing complex not far from me that recently started admitting Section 8 residents. (For those who don't know, Section 8 is a low-income housing program). They were trying to *help* poor people with a decent, safe place to live. Unfortunately, it attracted an unfavorable element--within the year, crime literally exploded over there; drug busts were common, as was prostitution, and shootings. Eventually though, things settled down...but the damage was already done. Several people sent out petitions to get the Section 8 status yanked...which happened last year. It sucks that the *good* people had to move out because of the assholes

[rahmota]

I'll agree there is a lot of problems in our cities and society in general. Many of them in the lower class neighborhoods as a result of the various situations that people find themselves in. A sense of hopelessness and "well thats what society expects from me so why bother trying harder attitude" are also prevelant within these neighborhoods because of how thats beat into them.

AFP has already touched on quite a few of the barriers that come up.

The struggle over the distribution of resources in general is one of the main underlyign causes of any and all struggles between social classes. Heck the struggle over resources is the number one reason for all violence, war, death and mayhem throughout history above and beyond any other *ism.

[Nightwolf]

I grew up in one of these low income places. It wasn't all that bad actually. My mother was a single parent and I believe she raised me rather well. I didn't cause trouble, I went to school every day, and got a job at 16, hell, even had 2 paper routes at 14.

It was only recently that the neighborhood went to hell. And what did it? The gangs. Asian gangs, and African American gangs. When I was growing up there, you never ever heard about a stabbing or a shooting. Seemed like our last few months there, thats all anyone ever heard about. I believe a lot of people join these gangs for a social status. They want to be the one to step up and say. "Look at me, yeah, I'm poor and you think less of me, but I'm in a gang where I am somebody!" Which usually ends up in violence because thats the way they operate.

A good friend of mine down in Madison, WI once told me that the so-called "gangs" up here are really a joke compared to the REAL gangs. He had some information that most of the larger gangs in the bigger cities were now operating more like the Mafia would operate instead of your typical idea of a gang. More white collar crime instead of random senseless violent crimes.