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  • Drunk Driver

    http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/279006

    I saw a version of this story in the local daily, and remembered Blas's stories of drivers in Wis. getting dozens of DUIs, driving with suspended licences, etc.

    In this story, a 57 year old man was convicted of his 19th drunk driving offence, this one being the killing of a wheelchair-bound woman. The prosecutor wanted "dangerous offender" status tacked on to the sentence, which would have meant if he got out on parole, one charge would have sent him back to jail permanently. Apparently prosecutors across Canada have been trying to get habitual drunk drivers labelled with this status, but no judge has gone for it yet.

    Now, I'm all for rehabilitation, but this guy's got 19 convictions, and he's 57. He's had chances, he's old enough to "know better," and he finally killed someone. He's proven he's a habitual offender. It doesn't list what all the 19 drunk driving convictions (not charges, btw, actual convictions) were, so maybe there was an escalation over time in severity, I don't know. But even giving him the benefit of the doubt, shouldn't, say TEN times have been enough to suspend his licence forever? Did it really need to come to the death of someone before he was taken off the roads for an appreciable length of time (even still, if he gets parole, he can probably get his licence back). And think, if she'd not been in a wheelchair, and then able to get away, he'd probably still just get a slap on the wrist and allowed to go on his way.

    It's odd. I've never driven drunk, known that I know someone who drives drunk, known anyone hit by a driver who was drunk, etc., yet this is a subject I'm fairly stiff on. If you've got 5 drunk driving convictions, I think that should earn you an attempted manslaughter charge via gross negligence, whether you came close to hitting anyone or not. And since Canada doesn't have "attempted X" charges, that'd get you a nice manslaughter charge on your record. Try explaining that one away on a background check, after losing 4+ years for your idiocy.
    Any comment I make should not be taken as an absolute, unless I say it should be. Even this one.

  • #2
    Ten drunk driving convictions is way more than enough to establish a habitual problem. Even five would be enough for me to say there's no reason why the person should be allowed a driver's license.

    As for just giving someone attempted manslaughter, I'd have to disagree with that one. I don't believe in charging people with crimes they didn't commit.
    Violence has resolved more conflicts than anything else. The contrary opinion that violence doesn't solve anything is merely wishful thinking at its worst. - Starship Troopers

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Greenday View Post
      As for just giving someone attempted manslaughter, I'd have to disagree with that one. I don't believe in charging people with crimes they didn't commit.
      From Wikipedia:
      Reckless endangerment: A person commits the crime of reckless endangerment if the person recklessly engages in conduct which creates a substantial risk of serious physical injury to another person. “Reckless” conduct is conduct that exhibits a culpable disregard of foreseeable consequences to others from the act or omission involved. The accused need not intentionally cause a resulting harm or know that his conduct is substantially certain to cause that result. The ultimate question is whether, under all the circumstances, the accused’s conduct was of that heedless nature that made it actually or imminently dangerous to the rights or safety of others.
      Originally posted by Criminal code of Canada, sec 229c
      where a person, for an unlawful object, does anything that he knows or ought to know is likely to cause death, and thereby causes death to a human being, notwithstanding that he desires to effect his object without causing death or bodily harm to any human being.
      239. (1) Every person who attempts by any means to commit murder is guilty of an indictable offence and liable
      One can argue that in their attempt to "obtain the illegal object," (drunk driving), they're being reckless and endangering others, which falls under the murder statute as attempted murder. Other arguments are also available. But what it boils down to is that reckless disregard for human life, and that's habitual. Under Canadian laws, you can say that demonstrating such reckless disregard would be attempted murder. That's where I'm coming from, and I think it is a fair charge. It just carries the same penalties as manslaughter.
      Any comment I make should not be taken as an absolute, unless I say it should be. Even this one.

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      • #4
        I'm pretty sure that reckless endangerment is a different charge than attemped manslaughter, and that the former is more appropriate for someone who habitually drives drunk.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Lady_Foxfire View Post
          I'm pretty sure that reckless endangerment
          If you look back at what I quoted, the second one is part of the homicide statutes - I should have included that, I suppose - so is the 3rd. Reckless endangerment leading to death is murder, and attempting to kill someone is punishable by incarceration. Thus, engaging in activity which is reckless and can lead to death could be considered attempted murder.
          Any comment I make should not be taken as an absolute, unless I say it should be. Even this one.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Greenday View Post
            Ten drunk driving convictions is way more than enough to establish a habitual problem. Even five would be enough for me to say there's no reason why the person should be allowed a driver's license.

            As for just giving someone attempted manslaughter, I'd have to disagree with that one. I don't believe in charging people with crimes they didn't commit.
            He might've been driving under a suspended license. That guy has one long ass rap sheet, I mean 19 DUI convictions?!!! Holy shit! After about 3 or 4 DUI convictions, you can have your license revoked permanently with no chance for a hardship license (especially if you killed somebody). Shoot, you could get up to 15 years for that, but more if you fled the scene in the state of Florida. That man should've been in jail a long time for so many of those repeat DUIs.
            There are no stupid questions, just stupid people...

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by BroomJockey View Post
              yet this is a subject I'm fairly stiff on.
              I think you and I will get on quite well on this matter.

              I for one am pleased that if convicted of EITHER driving with excess alcohol OR refusing to give a specimen of breath you go to court and you loose your licence (minimum of 12 months).

              Simple as that.

              It also stays on your licence as a conviction for 10 years, if you have another conviction within that period you get an automatic ban of 36 months.
              The test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with it. Robert Peel

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              • #8
                Honestly I think there's a big difference between those that have maybe one or two DUIs and someone who has 15+. I mean there's been a couple in our state too similar to this person. They really ought to be put away for a long time after say 10 DUIs because honestly I think a person just doesn't care at that point.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by crazylegs View Post
                  I think you and I will get on quite well on this matter.

                  I for one am pleased that if convicted of EITHER driving with excess alcohol OR refusing to give a specimen of breath you go to court and you loose your licence (minimum of 12 months).

                  Simple as that.

                  It also stays on your licence as a conviction for 10 years, if you have another conviction within that period you get an automatic ban of 36 months.
                  My state (Florida) automatically suspends your license for 18 months if you refuse a to test for alcohol (brethalyzer, blood,etc). But usually at the 3rd or 4th conviction you could get up to 10 years of having your license suspended, but an automatic revocation if it's DUI manslaughter and/or vehicular homicide. Florida is known for being tough on DUI laws and once you get one, it's on your record for 75 years. Not only that but Florida has zero tolerance policy too.
                  Last edited by tropicsgoddess; 09-12-2009, 04:45 PM.
                  There are no stupid questions, just stupid people...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I agree there need to be stricter punishments and policies regarding drunk driving. It's not just the driver and victim it's everyone involved in the situation that suffers.

                    but then I'm the daughter of a massive alcoholic who's been in too many wrecks to fully remember, and rather than get into all of that for fear of dragging the thread OT I just want to say I fully agree with BroomJockey and crazylegs. Hell, I think if you're convicted of more than 5 DUIs, (even more than 2!), you're a menace to society and should lose the privilege of having a driver's license and a car. Just my opinion.

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                    • #11
                      He has a long criminal record, including 114 convictions for assault, uttering threats, breaking and entering, and theft, in addition to the 19 drunk-driving convictions, reports CBC News.
                      114. 114?! Holy shit, Quebec. Maybe you should have at least given him a once over when he hit the triple digits.

                      Jesus Christ. ><

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                      • #12
                        Quebec: "300 strikes and you're out. And we're not even close to kidding."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by crazylegs View Post
                          I for one am pleased that if convicted of EITHER driving with excess alcohol OR refusing to give a specimen of breath you go to court and you loose your licence (minimum of 12 months).

                          Simple as that.
                          I'm going to argue with the bolded and underlined part of this quote. I have been told by attourneys to deny breathilizer(sp) even when I haven't been drinking. This is because half the time they give a false positive. I'll let them take my blood, but I won't blow into the machine and run the risk of getting a DUI when I haven't been drinking.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Akasa View Post
                            I have been told by attourneys to deny breathilizer(sp) even when I haven't been drinking.
                            I'm going to emphasis this next part, so don't take it personally.

                            DO NOT REFUSE THE BREATHALYSER IN CANADA. IT IS EXACTLY EQUAL TO BLOWING POSITIVE.

                            Yes, that's correct. If you refuse to blow, you're treated exactly as if you'd blown over the legal limit, and a blood test won't get you out of it.
                            Any comment I make should not be taken as an absolute, unless I say it should be. Even this one.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I'm pretty hard on drunk drivers. If you drive drunk and harm someone, or damage property, I would prefer charges assuming malice aforethought to any effects of drunk driving.

                              Damage property (other than your own)? Malicious vandalism (A Felony offense, I believe).

                              Hurt someone? Assault with a deadly weapon and / or attempted murder.

                              Kill someone? Murder. No 'vehicular homicide', no 'manslaughter'. Murder.

                              There is no excuse in this day and age to think that you're actually capable of maintaining any kind of judgement while intoxicated, so if you choose to drive while drunk, you're making a choice to put people or property in danger. That choice takes any charges out of the 'negligent' column and into the 'criminal' column.

                              Conversely, I wouldn't charge someone with anything if they pulled over and decided to sleep it off (assuming no one got hurt / nothing got damaged prior to their attack of intelligence). It might be belated, but they clearly showed some judgement.

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