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  • Article on Craiglist I found

    Being an Aus boy myself, I understand what the writer is going on about.
    How true is this though? Do you US members know of the concept of 'mates', in terms of a group of people who you'll stick up for, and through, about anything? I'm not talking best friends.. That's sorta different.

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    I grew up in Australia. Australian men generally accept masculinity far better than American men, and I understand why this is. In every country on earth where boys play, there is a ritual of selecting members of each team, whether the game is soccer, cricket, football, baseball, kickball, mammoth-hunting, what have you. Most boys, at some time, have experienced the humiliation of being picked last, and it hurts. Even being picked second-last is much more tolerable than being picked last. It hurts— what is important, and culturally distinct, is how the boy deals with that pain and humiliation, when he's the one picked last.

    In Australia, boys strive to be an asset to the team that picks them. They actually care more about how their team does than how they feel. This isn't ego annihilation, and it's not fascism. While playing the game, the game is what's important, not one's own petty issues. If a boy can table his own issues sufficiently to make a good catch, or kick a goal, he'll get picked sooner next time. He knows this. It's a question of priorities: the team wants to win, and they will pick those kids who will make it more likely that their team will win. How each individual feels during this process is irrelevant to the overall goal. Be dependable, be an asset to the team, and the rest of the team will take care of you.

    In Australia, there is the concept of mates. The word loosely translates as "friend", but the truth is that Americans lack the concept completely. Your mate has your back, and you have his. Your mates help define you, and accept you unconditionally. Once you're in, you're in for life. It's not easy to get in. When I was nine, I had a kid who used to annoy me mercilessly on the playground. One day, I had had enough of his picking on me, and I knocked him over with a punch. He got up, shook himself off, and shook my hand. "We're having a party this weekend. Here's where it is."

    I was still really angry, and I didn't immediately understand what he was doing. He wanted to know that I would stick up for myself when provoked. He needed to know if, after he was my mate, I'd stand up for him. Once he found out that I'd stand up for myself, I was in. At that party, everyone there treated me like a mate, and I felt more included than I ever did before, and I never got selected last for any game again at that school.

    American boys don't have this. The best have a much weaker version of this, but the commitment is conditional and halting, the bonds constantly tested by vicious games of conformity and obedience. Maybe men at war have the real thing, but I have no experience of this. Coming back to the USA, I had to teach my male friends to be mates, and it never came naturally to any of my new friends. I have American mates now, some of whom I've been friends with for twenty years, but it took an enormous amount of work, and included really rocky periods, and a lot of struggle. New people I meet, especially younger people, have no understanding of what it means to be a mate. Friendships, especially among young people, are temporary, fleeting, strategic. They exist in order to jockey for social position. American men seem treacherous, insecure, and ungrounded in comparison to Aussie men. It's killing us as a society. It's one of the great tragedies of our time.

    When an American boy gets picked last at a game on the playground, he gives up on ever being selected by the other boys, except last. He retreats into self-pity and misanthropy. This is encouraged by the adults, especially his parents, doubly especially when his dad made the same choices about being picked last himself. This boy tries to create a new playing field where he is the top of the selection. Because he knows he cannot compete on the playing field, he tries to compete in intellectual pursuits, or in a fantasy world, or in fandom. He collects comic books, or plays Dungeons & Dragons, or plays video games. Maybe he learns science, or literature, or art, or music. It never occurs to him to strive to improve himself, to make himself an asset to the team that might choose him. It never occurs to him that a drama is unfolding on a level bigger than that of his individual ego.

    When adolescence hits, this boy tries to be cool. He creates a new pecking order based around musical taste, or fashion, or obscure knowledge. He tries out for the school play, or joins the debate team, or starts a band, or joins the school's literary magazine, and tries to win approval through his creativity and intelligence. There is nothing inherently wrong with seeking approval through these channels, but the boy still has a chip on his shoulder about rejection. He strives to create not merely a new selection where he is on top, but a new selection where the kids who are successful at the old games are rejected here. He seeks to be even crueler than he thinks those other kids are— to cut them down before they can hurt him again. He doesn't realize that being rejected from the alternative he has just created doesn't hurt at all, really. His ego depends upon being top of some pecking order, even an imaginary one, and he will viciously defend his new status, especially by being cruel to those who are lower down on his new pecking order. He becomes an asshole, but it's everyone else's fault but his.

    Ultimately, this is what it means to be cool, to be indie, to be avant-garde, to be hip. As a young punk rocker, I was saved from this insanity because I grew up in a small town where weirdos got their asses beat. In order to be weird, you had to band together and watch each other's backs. We had to trust each other in a fight, or we'd all get stomped. It was ugly, it was nasty, and it was exhausting, but at the end of the day, you really knew who your friends were. A realistic selection sprung up based on whether you were worth saving when everyone got jumped by rednecks. You sized up new potential friends for their value in dragging you out from under a half dozen pairs of steel-toed Doc Martins when the Nazi skinheads broke up your hardcore show. (I like traditional skinheads, but the Nazi skins suck ass). When the bored, redneck small-town cops harassed us for being weird, you needed to know your friends had your back when you split up and ran.

    The point is that every boy and every man needs to know his friends chose him. It's hard-wired into our brains. We need to know that we were worth picking, that we're valued for what we contribute to the people around us. We need it in our jobs, in our friendships, and in our relationships. Those boys and men who never get chosen, who never become the people anyone would want on their side, are damaged goods. They're not really cool, they're undeveloped. No tattoo or piercing, no leather jacket or pair of glasses, no boots or records or novels or comic books or mp3s or posters or t-shirts; no commodity of any kind is going to make a pair of balls occur where they wouldn't anyway.

    We live in an advertising culture where we are constantly told that the only thing that stands between our current state and wholeness is a particular commodity. It's the central lie of our culture, and the people who hate mainstream culture the most seem to cling to this lie the most intensely. Notice how many "alternative" people define their non-conformity by how readily they conform to an alternate standard? How they buy objects that articulate their rebellion for them? It has become so ingrained in our culture that the current crop of teenagers makes no distinction between consumption and expression. They are frustrated that consumption alienates them from their own feelings and desires, but they express that frustration by consuming more commodities. It's a vicious circle. Let go. Quit being cool.
    Beware the Spaniard (for he has a cutlass hidden on his person at all times.)

  • #2
    I think its a situational thing. Some people get it others dont. I'll agree that there is too much herd mentality among people in amerika today. Anyone who does manage to break away from the herd and be an individual or truely different is treated like they have a mental disorder or are dangerous.

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    • #3
      Maybe I just didn't read this right, but the original writer seems to be trying to make the point that a boy just isn't a boy if they don't succeed or at least try to better themselves physically.
      Why can't boys try to succeed and achieve success and develop deeper bonds with other boys through other persuits? Why does he consider that only getting knocked around lead to greater intimacy with the males around him?
      Maybe it's just because I'm a girl, but not everyone is going to be able to kick the ball way out into left field (although I'll grant, it DOES feel good when you get picked last for kickball, and then after the outfielders all smirk and move in when it's your turn to kick and you boot it way over their heads...mua hahahaha!). Some guys are just going to be better at laying out syntheses for Organic Chemistry. Others are going to play guitar really well. None of that precludes anyone from becoming "mates" with other guys, sticking up for their other nerd friends, etc.

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      • #4
        That's true, and I agree with you there.. But as a general statement, is it fitting? I know I've got friends who are more just acquitances, and friends who I talk regularly with, and wouldn't mind hanging out with. But then I've got 'mates', who I'd go above and beyond for. I'm not a very sporty person as the writer of the article is. My version is music, not physical activity. Also, video games. But I've still had the same thing (there's a term that was coined a few years back for it - mateship) happen.

        It's more about recognising a person as ... well, the writer describes it better then I could:

        Your mate has your back, and you have his. Your mates help define you, and accept you unconditionally.
        Beware the Spaniard (for he has a cutlass hidden on his person at all times.)

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        • #5
          Thats kind of what I was trying to get at but failed to explain. Its situational in that not everyone within the herd can becoem "brothers" or "mates" or closer than kin to put it into redneck.

          I think I understand what the original person meant but have trouble expressing it into words as well.

          DO I think its a general statement that no one in america can understand and becomes mates. No. I do think that it takes a special set of circumstances and experiences though. A special understanding and mindset. One that is rather uncommon today though.

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          • #6
            In my area, it works like this. You have:

            Acquaintances - People you kinda know, hang out with sometimes, but aren't really good friends with.

            Friends - People you know, hang out with more.

            Best Friends - Equivalent to a mate. Really close, always stick up for each other, etc.
            Violence has resolved more conflicts than anything else. The contrary opinion that violence doesn't solve anything is merely wishful thinking at its worst. - Starship Troopers

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            • #7
              I understand the concept of a "mate" but in my case, I use the term "brother" since the person in question is closer to me than my family. I agree that it comes form special circumstances, and is not an everyday thing. Kind of like finding the right people. I know, that my "brother" has my back and I've got his. We've pulled eachother out of more bad shit than is really possible for people to get out of in one piece.

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              • #8
                I think you guys are misinterpereting the message. I believe the author is trying to say that America's society has failed their children on how to handle rejection. I believe this, as a whole, to be true. Too many kids are being told (consciously or subconsiously) that if they have been wronged in any way, they need to go to court and sue, or they whine and complain until government and laws get involved to 'protect' them.

                Too many parents shelter their kids way too damn much and then when the kids get out in the real world, they can't handle it. Parents are too worried about making things fair and just for their kids, so they don't see one tear or a shred of unhappiness instead of helping their child understand that LIFE is not fair, and not everyone is equal, adn the real world can be cruel. Some people are better at things than others, and if they want to get better and get picked, to practice what they want to do, and get better. If they don't want to put in the effort, then they have no cause for complaint if they are picked last or not at all. Heaven forbid the child has to experience rejection.

                Parents are too worried about Social Services being called if their child has a bruise or two from just playing. So they stick all sorts of protective equipment on them, and place all sorts of restrictions on them. Then when the kid gets a taste of real freedom, they don't know how to handle it, and ultimately make more mistakes with far harsher consequences than a bump on the head.

                My oldest kid has already had his share of stitches and other injuries that he gets from just playing and being a 4yo boy. Sometimes I think that the local ER should have 'frequent customer' point cards or something...

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Fuzzykitten99 View Post
                  I think you guys are misinterpereting the message. I believe the author is trying to say that America's society has failed their children on how to handle rejection.
                  True dat. Case in point: these "no-fail" schools that seem to be cropping up as well as this prevailing attitude of "oh let's not hurt the children's self-esteem". Puh-leeze. My mom and I sometimes joke that my generation is the last one to know what failure was (do schools even use red pens and the "F" grade anymore?!).

                  I tried so much stupid stuff when I was a kid I'm surprised the worst I ever wound up with was a concussion (misjudged when fooling around on one of those "space trolley" contraptions and smacked into a tree). Once I even jumped off the garage roof with a homemade "parachute" and the worst I got was scratches from the hedge I landed in. Kids learn best by experimenting. Yeah, I was picked last, not picked at all, picked on, bullied, beat up and teased. I turned out OK.
                  "Any state, any entity, any ideology which fails to recognize the worth, the dignity, the rights of Man...that state is obsolete."

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                  • #10
                    I agree with that. I was the same. Bullied, not picked, etc. And I got injured a few times. Once jumped from a height during a game of tag, and broke a toe.

                    If I got hurt, or in trouble? I was taught to deal with it. And punished accordingly.

                    Yeah, I was an outcast at school somewhat. But I seem to also have turned out alright. (Though I could be wrong..)
                    Beware the Spaniard (for he has a cutlass hidden on his person at all times.)

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