Will Anything Good Ever Come From The U.S. Invasion of Iraq

[Gravekeeper]

I hate to sound callous, but why was it the U.S.'s job to take out Saddam? There are evil dictators all over Africa and Asia, but no one does jack squat abou them.

Yeah but those dictators aren't standing on top of oil.

=p

[Flyndaran]

Yeah but those dictators aren't standing on top of oil.

=p

I despise Bush Jr. with a passion, but I don't think oil had anything to do with his obsession with Iraq. He simply wanted to finish what his daddy couldn't... not to mention that Saddam threatened his daddy so it became personal.

I realize you meant it as a joke, but far too many people believe it.

[BroomJockey]

I don't think oil had anything to do with his obsession with Iraq. He simply wanted to finish what his daddy couldn't.

Why one or the other? Why not BOTH? I'm sure it would have been a heck of a lot harder to do anything if he'd not had the carrot of infrastructure contracts in an oil-rich country to dangle in front of private companies.

[Flyndaran]

Why one or the other? Why not BOTH? I'm sure it would have been a heck of a lot harder to do anything if he'd not had the carrot of infrastructure contracts in an oil-rich country to dangle in front of private companies.

That may have been Cheney's reason, but I just have trouble with the self proclaimed prophet Bush Jr. really caring about monetary issues.

[BroomJockey]

the self proclaimed prophet Bush Jr. really caring about monetary issues.

right, because the rich daddy's boy doesn't wanna trade favours.

[Greenday]

No offense, but which asskicking was that exactly? Bin Laden was practically forgotten about by Christmas for fuck sakes. =/

It was the war on terrorism, not the war on Osama bin Laden. We were fighting Al Queda, not just bin Laden. And I'm pretty sure Al Queda lost nearly all of it's power in Afghanistan, considering they are hiding in Pakistan now.

[joe hx]

He simply wanted to finish what his daddy couldn't... not to mention that Saddam threatened his daddy so it became personal.

One thing I've never understood about this argument is that Bush Jr's dad was President. Isn't threatening the President of the United States cause for, I don't know, a little aggression?

Also, on the oil thing - we've spent more money on Iraq than we would be able to get back with the oil. The power we'd have though... That's a different story.

[Nyoibo]

Of course, I still stand by my opinion that if Saddam had been dealt with back in 1991...we wouldn't have gone to war in the first place.

If Saddam hadn't been supported so long by the US you probably wouldn't have gone to war either.

I hate to sound callous, but why was it the U.S.'s job to take out Saddam? There are evil dictators all over Africa and Asia, but no one does jack squat abou them.

But most of those dictators didn't come to power with US backing and support.

It was the war on terrorism, not the war on Osama bin Laden. We were fighting Al Queda, not just bin Laden.

But there was no evidence that Iraq had any links to Al Qaeda.

[Greenday]

But there was no evidence that Iraq had any links to Al Qaeda.

What does this have to do with my point that we kicked some ass?

[BroomJockey]

What does this have to do with my point that we kicked some ass?

You abandoned the "useful" war in Afghanistan to do the stupid crap in Iraq, with the lie floating around that Saddam had links to Al-Qaeda. So, while you may have made a good start, your military kinda left before it should have, to satiate your president's hard-on for conflict.

[protege]

If Saddam hadn't been supported so long by the US you probably wouldn't have gone to war either.

The only reason he was supported...is because he opposed the Ayatollah. It was feared that Iran was growing too powerful...and supporting Iraq seemed the only option for stability in the region. Unfortunately, that means you sometimes risk supporting people with questionable motives.

[Greenday]

You abandoned the "useful" war in Afghanistan to do the stupid crap in Iraq, with the lie floating around that Saddam had links to Al-Qaeda. So, while you may have made a good start, your military kinda left before it should have, to satiate your president's hard-on for conflict.

We didn't abandon Afghanistan. We kept all out troops there and just put other troops in Iraq. Iraq actually had a large military compared to most countries, and had at least some decent weapons. Iraq required a larger force to win.

And, not sure if you didn't know, but the President is the highest ranking officer in the United States of America military. He could tell a five star general to lick his boots and he'd have to do it.

[AdminAssistant]

What does this have to do with my point that we kicked some ass?

Yeah, and I'm sure the millions of innocent Iraqi civilians that were killed and are still being killed in the conflict are sooooo happy we gave a good and proper ass-kicking to them.

We had no business invading Iraq, period. Afghanistan should have been an international effort with heavy doses of diplomacy. But no, that's not the American way. The American way is to barge in with a bunch of weapons, kill indiscriminately, and satisfy the pure blood lust for revenge. All in the name of Freedom, Apple Pie, and Jesus.

Can't have peace protests, can't say anything bad about the President, or not go around with a yellow ribbon on your car and an American flag shoved up your ass. Remember the whole Natalie Maines thing? She publicly stated her shame in President Bush (before that was the cool thing to do) and her and her band were blasted in the media. They were holding drives to burn Dixie Chicks cd's. Ridiculous. The amount of "patriotism" in the guise of propaganda that was going on then rivals Soviet agit-prop. Get the people all worked up about the enemy and they won't care that the economy is in a spiral and the housing market is about to burst and urban crime is skyrocketing and the education system is in ruins. Gotta kill us some brown people!

I swear, I'd move to Canada but it's cold there.

[Greenday]

Yeah, and I'm sure the millions of innocent Iraqi civilians that were killed and are still being killed in the conflict are sooooo happy we gave a good and proper ass-kicking to them.

Come on AdminAssistant, if you are going to make up numbers, at least make them believable. Millions? For a population of 29 million, if we were getting millions killed, it'd be one of the worst genocides of all time.

Current estimated body count of Iraqi civilians since the war started is between 93,323 – 101,835. http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/

[Gravekeeper]

It was the war on terrorism, not the war on Osama bin Laden. We were fighting Al Queda, not just bin Laden. And I'm pretty sure Al Queda lost nearly all of it's power in Afghanistan, considering they are hiding in Pakistan now.

Unfortunately, Al-Qaeda is just fine + the invasion created 100 new extremist groups and gave them all a rallying cry along with a target: Iraq.

Current estimated body count of Iraqi civilians since the war started is between 93,323 – 101,835. http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/

Oi, alright.... >.>

"Iraq Body Count project (IBC), compiles reported Iraqi civilian deaths resulting from the invasion and occupation, including those caused directly by coalition military action, those caused directly by the Iraqi insurgency, and those resulting from excess crime."

"In a November 7, 2004 press release concerning the October 2004 Lancet study the Iraq Body Count project (IBC) states: "We have always been quite explicit that our own total is certain to be an underestimate of the true position, because of gaps in reporting or recording"."

"The Iraq Body Count (IBC) estimate for x350, like that for x334, was made possible by examination of the detailed data supplied to the Associated Press (AP) by the morgues surveyed in AP's 23rd May 2004 survey of Iraqi morgues."

"That May 23, 2004 Associated Press points out the lack of morgue data from many areas of Iraq. Also, it states: "The [Baghdad] figure does not include most people killed in big terrorist bombings, Hassan said. The cause of death in such cases is obvious so bodies are usually not taken to the morgue, but given directly to victims' families. Also, the bodies of killed fighters from groups like the al-Mahdi Army are rarely taken to morgues."

"But last May [2006], the government authorities in Basra came out and admitted that security had collapsed in the city and that for the previous month, one person had been assassinated every hour. Now, that is 24 dead a day, just from political assassination. Apparently these persons were being killed in faction fighting among Shiite militias and Marsh Arab tribes. We never saw any of those 24 deaths a day reported in the Western press."

Want me to keep going?

"In December 2007, the Iraqi government reported that there were 5 million orphans in Iraq - almost half of the country's children."

"The Iraq Body Count project, incorporating subsequent reports, has reported that by the end of the major combat phase up to April 30, 2003, 7,299 civilians had been killed, primarily by US air and ground forces"

"As of 2007 more Iraqis have lost their homes and become refugees than the population of any other country. Over 3.9 million people, close to 16% of the Iraqi population, have become uprooted. Of these, around 2 million have fled Iraq and flooded other countries, and 1.9 million are estimated to be refugees inside Iraq.

Roughly 40 percent of Iraq's middle class is believed to have fled, the U.N. said."


Yeah, asses kicked alright.

More like:

"The Lancet study's figure of 654,965 excess deaths through the end of June 2006 is based on household survey data. The estimate is for all excess violent and nonviolent deaths. That also includes those due to increased lawlessness, degraded infrastructure, poorer healthcare, etc."

"31% of those were attributed to the Coalition, 24% to others, 46% unknown. The causes of violent deaths were gunshot (56%), car bomb (13%), other explosion/ordnance (14%), air strike (13%), accident (2%), unknown (2%). A copy of a death certificate was available for a high proportion of the reported deaths (92 per cent of those households asked to produce one)."