Are schools too strict.

[gremcint]

I'm in Ontario, Canada.
OVerall they are not too bad but there are a few things that come to mind.

grade 4: due to me being a loner (read: bully target) I usually hung around by myself, my teacher threatened me with detention if I didn't join a sports team, this was after making people ask me to play tetherball with them (I said no because I didn't care for tetherball)

Highschool:
I forgot my book for English class ONCE and go detention writing lines.

Another time I was on an in school suspension for one day, near the end of the day I had to go to the washroom, person said know. I ended up crapping myself right after I got off the bus, fortunatley noone at school found out.

honestly it comes down to the individual teacher for most of the stories you guys have, you'll get different teachers.

I think zero tolerance policies can be abused but they are in place for a reason, There was a news article about a kid having a rifle in his truck on the day it got searched (he had been hunting), I say too bad it's your responsibility.

There was a lockdown at my school when someone left a hitlist somewhere, we were all put into the nearest room and it was horribly boring. The kid got arrested and I don't know what happened beyond that, though he apparently though it was a big joke.

There was also a bomb "threat", we had an electronic sign for current events, the student council was in charge of it. Idiot on the student council made it say: there is a bomb in this sign, no there is not. I saw it first and reported it directly to the principle because some idiot may not read the whole thing and call 911 or whatever. The person who did that got expelled.

Honestly a zero tolerance policy more often than not is effective in the right way, idiots get punished and others get a wakeup call, but yes they can aslo cause problems to the undeserving. However in this day and age with rampant allegations and school shootings you either cya or it gets reamed.

[AdminAssistant]

A few days before hunting season the Principal would make the rounds and remind everyone not to leave their rifles in their trucks. See, a lot of guys would get up at 4 am, go duck hunting, then go to school. But after the Westside shooting...schools in the area took that pretty seriously.

[violetyoshi]

How hard is it to go to the toilet during breaks and use some self control and hold it during class, seriously, if you're needing to pee or poop every hour or less then you should probably go see a doctor. Dress codes are easy to follow you just have to *gasp* read them.

I suppose women also are supposed to learn how to stop making themselves bleed monthly too right?

That almost made sense, except that I got over my washroom phase before women started having their periods. Plus, I'm married. I've been married twice now. I'm familiar with "period habits". You shouldn't have to go fix yourself once per class. Furthermore, you don't have to yell "I'M HAVING MY PERIOD!" You can just as easily mention it to the teacher quietly and privately, or give them a certain look that says "I NEED TO GO NOW" or you can just say fuck the teacher and go. No one's going to suspend you for going to change your tampon.

FInally, I'm not "the student" who caused any sort of problem. Whatever happened to "personal responsibility"? Making person A suffer the consequences of what person B did seems to go directly against that. Make person A suffer the consequences because of what person A did and leave it at that. Maybe it's more difficult, but I hardly think basing responsibility on convenience is the way to go.

DrFarhook what you said makes sense, IF the teacher in question is a woman. Most of the male teachers I've come in contact with have been extremely insensitive about the issue, usually ignoring the woman until she has to humilate herself in front of the class. As far as saying fuck the teacher and go, you can get in trouble for that. There is a book called Instead of Medicating and Punishing by Laurie A Coture, which criticizes schools for denying students elimination needs. Actually I think the op, and everyone else here who has had trouble in school should read the book. It's comforting to know someone gets that a lot of what schools expect of students is unreasonable.

[Nyoibo]

I suppose women also are supposed to learn how to stop making themselves bleed monthly too right?

Did I at any time mention that? No I didn't, I didn't bring it up nor was I talking about that at all.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I managed to deal with my period at school without having to leave lessons; and mine were horrendously heavy and irregular. True, I had to miss school for a couple of days when the pains were too bad for me to attend, but I never asked to leave lessons cuz I sorted myself out before school, break, lunch, break and after. I'd wear a tampon and a pad, and change them whenever I had the chance, so sorry, I don't buy that girls should need to cut classes to deal with periods.

As for detentions; I got a couple for standing up for myself against bullies, and a week's suspension for beating the crap out of a girl for starting a fight with me. She, incidentally, didn't get punished at all. However, since my parents were on my side, my suspension wasn't a disgrace, more a week's holiday from school. XD

[DrFaroohk]

The problem with the rules they have is that they don't follow their own rules, which means they are bullshit. When they want to enforce them, they're all like "Well rules are rules and must be obeyed without question! For the fatherland!!!!" Which is ok if you're gonna be consistent about it.

I used to be the kid who would argue the rules because I found something in the handbook, a loophole or something, that would benefit me, and they'd be like "Nope nope nope! Rules aren't really rules, they're just guidelines, so piss off."

Screw that. If you're gonna enforce the rules, you have to enforce them all around, not pick and choose which ones are convenient for you. If you want to do that, then maybe ease up on the students too.

[BroomJockey]

"Well rules are rules and must be obeyed without question! For the fatherland!!!!"

Ah godwin, how I've missed thee.

[DrFaroohk]

Hey I never said anything about Nazis or Hitler. Sometimes, the mind sees what it wants to see...lol....
>

[Cats]

About the whole Bathroom issue:

My high school was poorly designed, and as such, if you had classes on the opposite ends of the school back to back, there was literally NO time whatsoever to get there through the crowded halls AND have time to relieve yourself without being late for class (students were not allowed to walk outside, so there was no way around the halls of 2000+ kids). Now, if you were like me, and on a certain day of the school schedule, had FIVE back to back classes that required this trek across the entire building, chances are, yes, you WOULD need to pee during one of them.

As for going duing lunch? Oh, sorry, you have 22 minutes to wait in line, get a table, and eat your lunch (which was barely enough time). With 800 others. Who all have to share the same 4 stall bathroom during lunchtime.

Yes, I agree that one should go between classes, IF TIME PERMITS. Everyone's ability to hold it is different, and in my case, when I have to go, I have to go in the next 20 minutes (or else the pressure actually causes me a lot of discomfort, and isn't healthy). When classes are more than twice this long, sometimes, if you realize you have to go just after class starts, it's possible that you might NOT be able to hold it in until the end, even if you do have time in between the next class.

Sometimes, when you have to go, nature really means, you have to go. Not wait until it's convenient for the teacher to let you.

Yes, I understand that people abuse the bathroom pass right. But I don't believe a teacher should deny you the ability to go unless they have a GOOD reason to suspect you would abuse it, or if a test is in progress (where the issue of cheating may arise).

Luckily, most of my teachers were cool, and if you had the issue of not having enough time between classes, if you told them you'd be right back as soon as you got to their room, they would understand. Some of the senior teachers were awsome enough to make pre-made passes already signed for someone to take on their own without having to interrupt class to ask (they figured we were old enough to handle ourselves and take responsibility into our own hands. If you were gonna cheat and use them to skip class, hey, that was your own fault, not theirs).

In High school especially, students don't need to be babysat anymore. They need to learn to take responsibility for their own actions for themselves. No student who is or on the verge of 18 should have to ask premission to answer a basic need.

[BuggedMei]

I believe schools are too strict in handing out detentions AND enforce them at either ends of the scale. Theres never a middle ground. In school, and out of school, detentions are more like holidays and free time then punishments for repeat offenders. Well behaved students who get slapped by the "zero-tolerance" get caught missing important lessons adding to the allready overwhelming amounts of work they have to do.

Examples.. 8th grade, I'm taking notes about something to do with states. My hand writing is GOD awful, huge, taking up lots of space. To save space I shorthand my states. NY, NJ, PA, ect. Teacher then comes around and checks our notes, stops at me (I assumed to tell me how horrible my writing was) and hands me a detention slip. Why? because I shorthanded my states...

Huh? I refused to sit around in a classroom all day because I wrote "PA" instead of "Pennsylvania". Abuse of power issuing a detention for something so.. silly.

10th grade, "No Cell Phones" rule. Ok, I understand that. Mine was in my locker, its lunch time, I take it with me to lunch to check my messages. Its snowing, HARD, out. I live in the middle of the woods where that much snow makes it difficult to get home. I flip my phone on under the table and a message from my mom pops up. "Stay at XXX neighbors until the snow stops, I'll pick you up there" I respond with an OK and put my phone in my bag. Next thing I know I have two security guards picking me up and literally carrying me down to the office where they refuse to let me go or call my mother. In spite I took out my phone and called her. I was given a week out of school detention.

I can understand the rule and I understood what I did was spiteful but a week out of school for a normally well behaved never in trouble student who was checking her messages for a VERY important message?


In both cases it just seems like an abuse of power and is more harmful educationally to the student then it is a punishment for doing something wrong. Zero Tolerance policies also have a habit of "making examples" of some of the more well behaved students for no reason other then to demonstrate power. Imagine a parent like that. A parent who beats their kids because they spilled some juice instead of showing/telling them how to clean it up or delivering a meaningful punishment. We take children away from those kinds of parents.

A good system would be one that enforces meaningful punishments, not days out of class. One that punishes on a case-by-case basis. I fear this kind of thing may be impossible though because schools are becoming more and more like a day care where many parents have no active interest in their childrens lives OR their special kumquat can do no wrong.


....and I still wanna be a teacher...

[violetyoshi]

LoL, special kumquat.

[Rageaholic]

We had those rules, too. My school even had the *gasp* audacity to ban midriff exposing prom dresses and cheerleading uniforms. The girls who wanted to slut up had to do it on the weekends. Seriously - jeans, t-shirts, polos, khakis...I never had a problem finding dress code appropriate clothes. And I lived in the middle of nowhere.

Well, in response to all these dress code responses, I am NOT saying shirts with "Fuck You" should be allowed, nor am I saying any other obviously offensive clothing item should be put up with, but the way the dress code is set up is that if you even slighly break it (like wearing something of slighly different length than allowed), than you're in trouble. Some schools have become so picky that you can't tell the difference between public school and catholic school.

Of course, I think that if you need to go, you should be allowed. But the pass system makes sure that right is not being abused.

Fair enough, but I still don't understand why they are so afraid of it being abused. The only instance I can see is with younger children where something can happen, but once you're 12 or 13, they shouldn't worry about them merely leaving class. So they miss a lesson. The way I see it, it's on them.

So, what should they get? There has to be some kind of punishment if a rule isn't being followed. The detention for homework thing is a kind of, "Well, if you don't have time to do homework at home we will PROVIDE time for you" kind of thing, I think.

Like a said, for not doing homework, it should only go on their grade. And for dress code violations, after a couple of warnings, have them expended or expelled (if it keeps up). Makes more sense than keeping them in school longer. Besides, why should the school get to keep kids their longer than the 35 hours a week they stay their plus homework. As if that isn't enough...

Yeah, heaven forbid teens actually have curfews and bedtimes like I did. On weeknights, I was usually in bed by 10 or 10:30, and got up at 5:55. The problem is that there's too much extra crap - clubs, associations, sports - that takes away any 'free time' they might have.

Why should school start at 7:15 for highschoolers? My brother has to be on the bus by 6:30, meaning he has to be up before 6:00. Too damn early. I could understand starting at maybe 8 or 9, but 7? Jeez.

I think it originally started that way because kids had to be up early for chores a hundred some years ago. However, that has changed now and it's time the schools change with the times.

My folks didn't have to sign homework, but they did have to sign report cards. Parents have to be held accountable for their children.

But children shouldn't be held accountable because their parents didn't sign something.

Honestly, "showing your work" always drove me crazy, as did not being able to use a calculator, but then, I hated math. But I think I understand why we had to do that - there will be situations when you don't have a calculator, and it's not enough that you know how to solve a problem, you need to know why the problem is solved that way.

Glad we agree here. Luckly, I like math as it's one of my better subjects, but showing your work was just crap, especially when I was at the point where I could do them in my head. I mean, yeah, I can see where it can benefit the teacher, but if I know how to do it, and know the answers, why shouldn't I be able to just write down the answers? Also, I have found other ways to solve problems. For instance, a problem like 94 times 9 could be answered by multiplying 94 times 10 to get 940 and subtracting that by 94. To get that answer, subtract 100 from 940 to get 840 and add 6 to get 846. At least that's how I did some problems, but appartently I was supposed to do it like everyone else, even though my way worked just fine.

[Nyoibo]

Showing working out for maths becomes a bigger thing when you get into higher maths, when you get to equations that have 7 or 8 steps to them working out is used to show that you understand the process and to be able to see where in the process you went wrong, a problem that has 8 steps may be marked out of 8, now if you get the right answer you'll get full marks for it, but if you get the wrong answer you can still get up to 7/8 if you show your working.

[DesignFox]

Showing your work for Math also helps prove that you didn't cheat. It's extremely easy to copy just the answers from someone else's paper. Takes a bit more effort to also copy the process, especially if you don't understand it.

And personally, I think the reason the older kids go to school earlier is so they can help their parents who work with any younger siblings. Ever notice older kids waiting at bus stops/babysitting younger siblings? I have. I was a latch-key kid myself. When I was too young to stay by myself, I went to after school programs or stayed with a neighbor because I was an only child for 12 years. Then my parents had another kid...anyway...
Some working parents may have teens watching younger siblings. I know that once I was old enough to care for him, I was helping with the care of my younger brother for a couple hours after school.

And I don't know about where some of you live, but there's a whole ton of schools around my area. They don't have enough buses to transfer ALL the kids at once. The bus schedule had to be staggered to get all the kids in the district to all their different buildings around town. Older kids went to school earlier and got home earlier.

Another reason for scheduling the buses early? Probably had something to do with traffic. For most parents work starts at 9. Guess when traffic gets to be a bitch around my area? At least the school traffic was over and done with before the work traffic. All the kiddos were at school. Mom and Dad can get to their jobs and not worry about shuttling children, anymore. And the teens who drive themselves to high school can be off the roads before the major traffic starts.

Tons of reasons for starting kids early. If you can't handle getting up early, go to bed earlier. To this day I wonder how I did it...but I managed. And I did more than just go to school- I had all kinds of after school activities, and a younger brother to help wrangle. Oh, and my mom was dead by the time I was 13. So by that point I was also doing my own laundry and handling a lot of household stuff most teens didn't have to do at my age.

So I don't accept sob stories about school starting too early. It makes too much sense for one. And if some of us kids in abnormal situations could handle it, most kids with normal lifestyles or family structures should be able to do just fine.

About the only argument that's come up that I can agree with is that teachers and authorities in the schools should not be abusing their power. Putting a kid on a week suspension for texting during LUNCH is absurd in my opinion. Or punishing a kid for using shorthand in their NOTES. That's beyond asinine.

I guess I was just lucky. I had very few problems with authority in school. I mean, once in awhile there was a teacher or two I butted heads with. But if anything I just learned to weigh my choices- for some things, I broke the rule and dealt with the consequences. For things I could, I fought to have changes made. I learned to compromise, and I learned a few lessons that certainly apply in the real world, but I never would have guessed that back then.

[Nyoibo]

So I don't accept sob stories about school starting too early

Same here, I used to work a job that started at 5am and before that when I was at school I lived over an hour away from it and had stuff I had to do in the morning, school is designed to prepare you for life, life is tough, compared to it, school is pretty easy.