Are schools too strict.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Agreed. I managed to catch the bus every day to go to school, only missing it a couple of times. My dad went to work before I got up and my mum was a childminder, so couldn't ferry me to school every morning. I went to catch the bus with one of my brothers, who went to the brother school of my all girls' school. Sometimes I had drama club after school, or choir; I just caught a later bus to get home.

life is tough, compared to it, school is pretty easy.

Hell yes. I would kill to get six weeks off work for summer, plus two weeks at both Easter and Christmas, and a week off in the middle of each term. I believe holidays are different at American schools, but it's still a huge difference to time off at work. I get approx six weeks off for the whole year where I work.

This sort of thing reminds me of sob stories from teens about not being able to use mobiles at school. Big fucking deal. When I was at school, (puts on old "in my day" voice, complete with sage nod) there weren't any mobiles. If you had to ring your parents for any reason, you went to the office and used the phone there, under the watchful eye of the secretary. If you wanted to talk to friends, you spoke to them in person. And if you wanted to break rules and talk to your friends while in class, you passed notes. xD

[MaggieTheCat]

Wow, 6 months for summer? That's a LOT. I think here in the States it's around 2 months, maybe 2 and a half. That's great and all, but I'd still much rather be working than going to school. I had a very strong dislike of high school.

[BroomJockey]

Showing your work for Math also helps prove that you didn't cheat.

The issue for me showing my math work was, there wasn't any to show. I was, at that time, a damned math genius. A problem that should have taken 6 steps, I could do in two. I'd write down the initial equation, one intermediate step, and the final answer, because that's literally all it took me. I didn't even need a calculator. And yet I'd lose marks because I wasn't "showing my work." Took a lot of arguing with the teacher to prove I wasn't BSing, and was literally taking short cuts I had no way to know about in the math.

[Rageaholic]

Examples.. 8th grade, I'm taking notes about something to do with states. My hand writing is GOD awful, huge, taking up lots of space. To save space I shorthand my states. NY, NJ, PA, ect. Teacher then comes around and checks our notes, stops at me (I assumed to tell me how horrible my writing was) and hands me a detention slip. Why? because I shorthanded my states...

Huh? I refused to sit around in a classroom all day because I wrote "PA" instead of "Pennsylvania". Abuse of power issuing a detention for something so.. silly.

Wait, aside from the fact that shorthand meant the same thing, who are they to tell you how to take your own notes? Isn't it your own notes to study for anway? That's another thing I hated, teachers demanding that you do things exactly as they say. Never mind the fact that you might be able to do it your own way, independance is discourged. I probably wouldn't have bothered coming to detention and I would have had the support of my parents.

10th grade, "No Cell Phones" rule. Ok, I understand that. Mine was in my locker, its lunch time, I take it with me to lunch to check my messages. Its snowing, HARD, out. I live in the middle of the woods where that much snow makes it difficult to get home. I flip my phone on under the table and a message from my mom pops up. "Stay at XXX neighbors until the snow stops, I'll pick you up there" I respond with an OK and put my phone in my bag. Next thing I know I have two security guards picking me up and literally carrying me down to the office where they refuse to let me go or call my mother. In spite I took out my phone and called her. I was given a week out of school detention.

I can understand the rule and I understood what I did was spiteful but a week out of school for a normally well behaved never in trouble student who was checking her messages for a VERY important message?

Wait, they send rent a cops to escort you out of school over a cell phone? I thought they were there to break up fights and stuff. What, was the cellphone a weapon? Was it one of those cell phone tazer things james bond would carry? What's the big fuckin' deal? If it's so distracting in class, why can't their be a time when they can check for important messages. And I don't wanna here "In my day..." BULL SHIT! Get with the times people!

This is the kind of bull shit I hate. For too often, schools treat their students like goddamn prisoners. I've seen it happen in my month of middle school, and I've heard it happen to my brother, many many times. I understand having security there, especially in the wake of school shootings, drug abuse, fights, and all that other crap that goes on. But when they use them to escort students out for using a cell phone, I call abuse of power. Similar stuff has happened to my brother and his friends over minor things like that. Of course, I personally wouldn't have minded a weeks suspension, but I digress.

In both cases it just seems like an abuse of power and is more harmful educationally to the student then it is a punishment for doing something wrong. Zero Tolerance policies also have a habit of "making examples" of some of the more well behaved students for no reason other then to demonstrate power. Imagine a parent like that. A parent who beats their kids because they spilled some juice instead of showing/telling them how to clean it up or delivering a meaningful punishment. We take children away from those kinds of parents.

A good system would be one that enforces meaningful punishments, not days out of class. One that punishes on a case-by-case basis. I fear this kind of thing may be impossible though because schools are becoming more and more like a day care where many parents have no active interest in their childrens lives OR their special kumquat can do no wrong.

You nailed it. They think making super strict rules actually prevents students from commiting more serious offenses. It's that "slippery slope" BS. In reality, it allows the serious offenders to be sneaky while those who just make mistakes are punished severly. It's just making things worse for everyone.

END RANT

I'll catch up on other replies sometime tonight or tommorow night.

[AdminAssistant]

Cell phones are a distraction in school and if a message is important enough, your parent/guardian can call the school office and have you paged. And if you don't think cell phones are a distraction, you've never tried to teach a group of students who are staring and typing into a little screen. The kids don't want phones for emergencies, they want them so they can text their friends and check facebook. The parents want their kids to have phones because they're so neurotic and clingy they can't stand not having contact with their precious ones 24 hours a day.

And before you call me an old fogey, I had a cell phone my senior year, and I kept it in my locker, turned off. Not to mention that phones can be used to cheat on exams. I do think that we are over-connected to the virtual world. It's a good exercise to turn off the phone and log off facebook every once in a while.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Wow, 6 months for summer? That's a LOT. I think here in the States it's around 2 months, maybe 2 and a half. That's great and all, but I'd still much rather be working than going to school. I had a very strong dislike of high school.

Six WEEKS. I somehow managed to do a massive typo. X_x

[Rageaholic]

The issue for me showing my math work was, there wasn't any to show. I was, at that time, a damned math genius. A problem that should have taken 6 steps, I could do in two. I'd write down the initial equation, one intermediate step, and the final answer, because that's literally all it took me. I didn't even need a calculator. And yet I'd lose marks because I wasn't "showing my work." Took a lot of arguing with the teacher to prove I wasn't BSing, and was literally taking short cuts I had no way to know about in the math.

Yeah! Same here. It got to the point where the steps I was supposed to take didn't require any thought. I even had this happen to me in college. I got marked down because I showed less steps. I mean what the hell?! If I've shown enough steps and got the same result as I would have had I not, what does it matter? Must I show every. fucking. step? They act like it's a bad thing that I can do some stuff in my head.

[Rageaholic]

Cell phones are a distraction in school and if a message is important enough, your parent/guardian can call the school office and have you paged. And if you don't think cell phones are a distraction, you've never tried to teach a group of students who are staring and typing into a little screen. The kids don't want phones for emergencies, they want them so they can text their friends and check facebook. The parents want their kids to have phones because they're so neurotic and clingy they can't stand not having contact with their precious ones 24 hours a day.

And before you call me an old fogey, I had a cell phone my senior year, and I kept it in my locker, turned off. Not to mention that phones can be used to cheat on exams. I do think that we are over-connected to the virtual world. It's a good exercise to turn off the phone and log off facebook every once in a while.

Fair enough, parents can call the school (although I could see some parents abusing this). I will also admit it can be extremely annoying to have someone's phone go off in the middle of class. It's happened at college before, but still, way over enforced. The person I was responding to didn't have her phone on during class, but during lunch. What's wrong with having it on during lunch? And having security come over it, THAT'S excessive. All this over something that could cause a distraction.

[violetyoshi]

The issue for me showing my math work was, there wasn't any to show. I was, at that time, a damned math genius. A problem that should have taken 6 steps, I could do in two. I'd write down the initial equation, one intermediate step, and the final answer, because that's literally all it took me. I didn't even need a calculator. And yet I'd lose marks because I wasn't "showing my work." Took a lot of arguing with the teacher to prove I wasn't BSing, and was literally taking short cuts I had no way to know about in the math.

Just another example of public schools rewarding the intelligent, with more strife cause of rules made to keep the stupid in check.

[MaggieTheCat]

Six WEEKS. I somehow managed to do a massive typo. X_x

Hahaha, okay, that makes much more sense.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Just another example of public schools rewarding the intelligent, with more strife cause of rules made to keep the stupid in check.

I do not understand this statment. How so? It does not sound like Broomjockey was being rewarded.

[JuniorMintz]

Just another example of public schools rewarding the intelligent, with more strife cause of rules made to keep the stupid in check.

More like schools rewarding the *hardworking*, with stricter rules to keep the rude and/or lazy in check. I fail to see what is so offensive about that.

[violetyoshi]

More like schools rewarding the *hardworking*, with stricter rules to keep the rude and/or lazy in check. I fail to see what is so offensive about that.

Well society has always appreciated those who can be perform like good little trained monkeys, over those with intelligence who find their own ways of doing things.

[BroomJockey]

More like schools rewarding the *hardworking*, with stricter rules to keep the rude and/or lazy in check. I fail to see what is so offensive about that.

Wait, I'm confused. Are you saying that because I had an intuitive grasp of it that I deserved lower marks than people who had to struggle, rather than it simply being a case of actually knowing the material? I mean, I certainly wasn't lazy. I showed all the work that I did, I just simply did more of it at a step.

Or am I misreading what you've written?

[JuniorMintz]

I think I just can't write, period. I meant no offense BroomJockey, and that's certainly not what I intended. I was referring more to the crack downs on general rules like cell phone use, and my post came out ass backwards. Sorry about that. I'll leave my post so as not to disrupt the flow of the thread, but I stand corrected.

Let me start over. Are schools too strict? Sure, some of them. My 9 year old niece (an honor student who NEVER makes trouble) was dragged to the principal's office along with a boy that she likes, given in house suspension for two days, had a call home from the principal, and a friggin' school assembly was put on to remind the whole school about the policies in effect regarding sexual harassment and whatnot. Their offense? He kissed her on the cheek and ran away. He was in trouble for smooching her, she was in trouble... yea, I don't know why. What was she supposed to do, kick him? Tattle? For frick's sake, she LIKES him!

So yes, some schools are too strict with some matters. That said, call me an old fogie if you must, but I see NO reason for kids to have their cell phones out during class, and I agree that there should be zero tolerance when kids are caught with them. They are a distraction at best, and at their worst they can be used for cheating. Also, while I personally see no reason to ban cell phones during lunch breaks, if the school says "No phones at *any* time!", and you are too self important or stupid to follow the rule and get caught, you deserve to have your phone taken away for the rest of the day.

It all goes back to the whole "the rules don't apply to me!" mentality that we have all complained about with regards to our customers. I don't know about you, but I know that I am no special snowflake, so I put my phone away when I'm told. I stay out of trouble, my teacher is happy, and no one takes my phone away. Win Win, in my book.