Are schools too strict.

[BroomJockey]

I think I just can't write, period. I meant no offense BroomJockey, and that's certainly not what I intended.

Nah, no offense, I just figured I was missing something since the way I was reading didn't seem like something you'd normally say.

[JuniorMintz]

Nah, no offense, I just figured I was missing something since the way I was reading didn't seem like something you'd normally say.

You're right, I am pretty predictable...

That's what I get for responding to one post after I read the rest of the thread hours previously.

[AdminAssistant]

Well society has always appreciated those who can be perform like good little trained monkeys, over those with intelligence who find their own ways of doing things.

Society rewards those who follow rules, that's true. And those who learn how to do things the 'proper' way can be intelligent, too. Another reason why they want people to learn certain steps in solving a math problem is because you build on those methods to learn more advanced math. That may not be possible with your own made-up methods.

Personally, I've never thought it was that intelligent to go against the rules for the sake of being stubborn or attempting to prove a point, but that's just me.

[Flyndaran]

...
Personally, I've never thought it was that intelligent to go against the rules for the sake of being stubborn or attempting to prove a point, but that's just me.

It's emotional, which is often at odds with, but usually irrespective of, intelligence.
Intelligence is often used to justify, through sometimes rather complex means, that which was arrived at by emotional reasons. So not throwing stones.
Also, wouldn't all civil disobedience fall under your definition of not intelligent?

[kamn]

I have no idea what its like in the states, but I have to agree on the no phone use. While "used to cheat" is a bit hard to swallow, as any teacher should be able to tell when a kid is using a cellphone during an exam, they are a distraction in every other case. If the rules say no cell phone in class, sure, no cell phones in class, you can use them inbetween classes, which would be perfectly logical to me. If someone could store the phone away in time, have them drop it/store it for that class and give him/her a reminder if needed. If the rules say no cellphone use in school, then no cellphone use in school. They could always go outside the school if they had something they NEEDED to know (although this would be rather harsh).

Dress codes. I have never experienced them and in theory it should work. However, shouldn't it be the parents job to make their little snowflake isn't dressing out as a total slut, not the schools? Also, shouldn't the students be made aware what kind of outfits can, could and will get them into trouble in the real world? Not through detentions, but through in class ridicule. If Johnny is wearing a "I hate you and want you to die!" T-shirt, have the teachers make him sit up infront of class, tell everyone in the class that if they want attention from that teacher, they should wear those kind of outfits and then question him for a grade. If Sammantha is wearing nothing but dental floss, have her spin around infront of the class, for everyone to see, then question her. I know, slippery slope, but it's the fairest I can think of, in that they will soon learn not to wear distruptive clothing and what kind of clothing is distruptive, at the same time providing liberty to those that have no wish to distrupt, just to express themselves. Its a novelty the first day, a distraction the second, normal school day the third. If they still want to pass the grade and to wear those kinds of shirts, they will have learned enough from class. And why are kids in school again?

No touching in school. I had to stop there and go over that part at least a dozen times. How can this be? In any, every and all senses that I can think of, this is wrong. Wrong, becouse kids need to learn what kind of contact is OK, what kind isn't, wrong becouse its an integral part of our relationship as human beings, wrong becouse it cannot be properly enforced. At the tip of this iceberg of trouble, may I point out that it is in school years that our hormones surge through the roof, when we fall in love, when we are emotionaly unstable. I would rather have them be able to hug and comfort each other, than have a potential suicide risk turn into a real suicide, becouse he thought noone cared. Even if that meant making-out in the hallway; or the janitors closet for that matter. All the better actualy, have them experience love while kids (not to be dismissive, but it usualy doesn't last anyway), and be ready for it, than be socialy, and emotionaly inept.
Trying to imagine a scenario where this would be problematic; kids start hugging and groping in the middle of class. Tell them to stop. Send them out if they don't. Let them know there IS a time and place for it and that there ISN'T. If they persist: principal, parents, detention are still available.
We communicate through 5 senses, not just 2. We see, we hear, we smell, we taste, we feel.

[JuniorMintz]

Also, wouldn't all civil disobedience fall under your definition of not intelligent?

There's civil disobedience, and disobedience for disobedience's sake. Refusing to comply with a simple rule like putting your phone away during school hours is not an act that holds the same significance as Rosa Parks's refusal to move to the back of the bus.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I will also make a point that having uniforms at my all girls' school did not stop automatic slutty dressing, as a lot of pro uniform people seem to think. XD I used to roll my skirt up to thigh level and unbutton my blouse at the top and I see girls at the same school even now doing likewise.

If the rules say no cell phone in class, sure, no cell phones in class, you can use them inbetween classes, which would be perfectly logical to me. If someone could store the phone away in time, have them drop it/store it for that class and give him/her a reminder if needed. If the rules say no cellphone use in school, then no cellphone use in school. They could always go outside the school if they had something they NEEDED to know (although this would be rather harsh).

Why harsh? I'm not allowed to use my mobile at work; it stays in my locker. I can't use it on the petrol station forecourt, so I have to walk away from the petrol station should I want to use it. In case of emergency, I can be reached easily thru the office phone. No-one really needs a mobile; as I stated before, when I was at school they didn't exist and no-one actually died from not having one. All kids use them for is texting and calling their friends, and they won't suffer terribly from not being allowed to do this during class.

[Nyoibo]

Well society has always appreciated those who can be perform like good little trained monkeys, over those with intelligence who find their own ways of doing things.

It all goes back to the whole "the rules don't apply to me!" mentality that we have all complained about with regards to our customers.

As an extremely intelligent person I know once said "You have to jump through other peoples hoops and do what they say until you're in a position to make your own hoops" Said while doing her Phd in child psychology because she didn't like the way it was done.

[violetyoshi]

I will also make a point that having uniforms at my all girls' school did not stop automatic slutty dressing, as a lot of pro uniform people seem to think. XD I used to roll my skirt up to thigh level and unbutton my blouse at the top and I see girls at the same school even now doing likewise.

Like how Britney Spears dressed in the video Hit Me Baby One More Time?

[Flyndaran]

There's civil disobedience, and disobedience for disobedience's sake. Refusing to comply with a simple rule like putting your phone away during school hours is not an act that holds the same significance as Rosa Parks's refusal to move to the back of the bus.

First off, who gets to decide what is and is not civil disobedience? Second, you didn't put any qualifiers in your blanket statement like only when discussing children disrupting normal school activities.

...
Why harsh? I'm not allowed to use my mobile at work; it stays in my locker. I can't use it on the petrol station forecourt, so I have to walk away from the petrol station should I want to use it. In case of emergency, I can be reached easily thru the office phone. No-one really needs a mobile; as I stated before, when I was at school they didn't exist and no-one actually died from not having one. All kids use them for is texting and calling their friends, and they won't suffer terribly from not being allowed to do this during class.

You chose to work there. Kids don't have any choice, so their rights should be given a bit more consideration in my opinion.

[Rageaholic]

So yes, some schools are too strict with some matters. That said, call me an old fogie if you must, but I see NO reason for kids to have their cell phones out during class, and I agree that there should be zero tolerance when kids are caught with them. They are a distraction at best, and at their worst they can be used for cheating. Also, while I personally see no reason to ban cell phones during lunch breaks, if the school says "No phones at *any* time!", and you are too self important or stupid to follow the rule and get caught, you deserve to have your phone taken away for the rest of the day.

It all goes back to the whole "the rules don't apply to me!" mentality that we have all complained about with regards to our customers. I don't know about you, but I know that I am no special snowflake, so I put my phone away when I'm told. I stay out of trouble, my teacher is happy, and no one takes my phone away. Win Win, in my book.

Just because it's a rule, doesn't mean it's right. I wouldn't have a problem with no cell phone in class. I do just fine with it in class in college, but outright banning phones period? No way! They are too convieniant to outright ban in an important place like a school. It's not about someone being too good for the rules, it's about whether or not the rule makes sense for everyone to be subject to. Sometimes a little rebellion is a good thing.

[Nyoibo]

They are too convieniant to outright ban in an important place like a school.

So come up with an arguement other than "it inconveniences you" as has been said, for years when mobiles weren't around people didn't need them, why do they suddenly need them now?

[Pedersen]

So come up with an arguement other than "it inconveniences you" as has been said, for years when mobiles weren't around people didn't need them, why do they suddenly need them now?

Humanity went for centuries without dentists. Why do we need them now?

Humanity went for centuries without any of the miracles of modern medicine. Why do we need them now?

Humanity went for centuries without phones of any sort. If you wanted to get a message to someone, you either went in person or sent a letter. Why do we need phones at all now?

Humanity existed for millenia without farming. Why do we need it now?

Humanity existed for centuries without cars, bicycles, mass transit. Why do we need them now?

Humanity existed for centuries without plastics of any kind. Why do we need them now?

Shall I go on? Asking "Why do we need this thing we didn't have a decade ago?" is a moronic thing to do. If people didn't have a need for something, it wouldn't be invented. Period. We might not agree with their need, but they did feel it was needed when they made it.

Demanding that somebody else justify their way of spending their money and/or time in a way that appeases you is also more than slightly arrogant. Why should they answer to you? It's their life, let them live it.

[Nyoibo]

Shall I go on? Asking "Why do we need this thing we didn't have a decade ago?" is a moronic thing to do. If people didn't have a need for something, it wouldn't be invented. Period. We might not agree with their need, but they did feel it was needed when they made it.

Demanding that somebody else justify their way of spending their money and/or time in a way that appeases you is also more than slightly arrogant. Why should they answer to you? It's their life, let them live it.

I'm not asking "why do we need this" I'm asking Why do we need 'this specific thing' in 'this specific circumstance'"

And I'm not demanding they justify their spending of either money or time.

I will concede however that my previous post was poorly worded to convey what I meant.

[JuniorMintz]

First off, who gets to decide what is and is not civil disobedience?

First off, are you suggesting that the actions of a disobedient student refusing to put their phone away, simply because they do not *want* to, are to be lumped into the same category as the actions of historical figures like Rosa Parks or Gandhi?

To answer your question, I believe that history will be the greatest judge of what was and was *not* civil disobedience.

Second, you didn't put any qualifiers in your blanket statement like only when discussing children disrupting normal school activities.

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but I've been lurking around here for a while (I don't debate often because I don't much enjoy it and I don't have the free time to keep up with most threads), and I'm starting to think there is not a single nit on these boards that you won't pick.

If my debate skills aren't up to what you consider par, sorry but oh well. Still, I enjoy participating in discussions around here on occasion, and I believe the point I was trying to make was pretty clear, at least to readers who aren't being obtuse on purpose.

Just because it's a rule, doesn't mean it's right.... Sometimes a little rebellion is a good thing.

Then rebel, but do it in an effective and mature manner. Sign petitions. Have a demonstration of some sort. Schedule a meeting with the principal/dean/whoever, and have a polite but reasoned discussion with them about why you feel cell phones should be allowed. Reasonable authority figures (and again, I've already conceded that there are some people that just plain aren't, like my niece's principal) should be more responsive to these actions then to a flat out "I refuse to put my phone away because I want it and I don't like being told what to do!".


(Note: Now I really do have to do some homework, so I may not respond any time soon, if at all. Not that it matters much, I guess, my two cents is only worth as much as everyone else's...)