Sex And Violence Double Standards

[Pedersen]

I'm not even too sure how to say this one, other than by example.

How many of you have heard of the Grand Theft Auto series of games? And how many of you have heard of the Scarface game?

I'm a big fan of the whole GTA series. Played GTA3, Vice City, and San Andreas. I've had an absolute blast playing them. The violence level, though, has always seemed a bit overstated. Yeah, you can kill anything in the game, sure, but it's also a fairly cartoony violence. The worst I think I recall seeing was being to blow heads off on occasion.

Now, this Scarface game? Tons more violent. When you shoot someone, you're told where you hit. Some times, you wind up with dismemberment (arms and legs and heads popping off). You can send the main character into a blind rage, where he becomes invulnerable, gets one shot kills, and every kill increases his health.

For the GTA games, having 10 enemies on the screen who want you dead is either a late game mission, or you've made yourself a very wanted person.

For Scarface, this is normal. I've only played for two hours, and have gone through gunfights that I would've lost in GTA.

For GTA, there's plenty of swearing, to be sure. But there is a significant chunk of dialog that occurs that doesn't involve swearing.

For Scarface, in those two hours, I think I've heard more swearing than I heard in all of my GTA hours (well past 100, close to 200, I think).

All of this is to say that Scarface is much more violent than GTA. And yet, I didn't even know that there was a Scarface game until I found it in the local rental store a month or so ago. It has generated virtually no mainstream press.

GTA has hookers. You have sex with them, pay them, and get back health. Run over them right afterwards (or kill them another way), and get most of your money back. And the sex scene is from the outside, so you have no control over what happens during it. The most you see is a bouncing car.

GTA had the "Hot Coffee" scandal, wherein if you downloaded a patch from a 3rd party off the internet, patched your game, and then hit play, you could unlock a sex scene that you could control.

GTA has people up in arms. Scarface is ignored. What the hell?

I just don't get it. Why is GTA viewed as so much worse, and Scarface is ignored?

[Boozy]

I just don't get it. Why is GTA viewed as so much worse, and Scarface is ignored?

Because GTA is popular and Scarface isn't.

You said it yourself - you hadn't even heard of this game until you ran across is in a store.

I don't think its a double standard so much as people focusing on the games that are more likely to be played by children. And kids really want to play the GTA game, and will sucker more than a few naive parents into getting it for them.

I'm not familiar with this Scarface game either, but I'm with you on GTA - I've seen my husband play it and I find the violence cartoonish as well. I don't think that makes it necessarily better, but I feel strongly that grown adults should be able to play what they wish.

The campaign against video game violence may focus on one or two games (the popular ones) but I think the general idea is to make parents aware that video games are not necessarily the Pacman and Asteroids type games they played when they were kids, and to get them to follow the ratings system already in place.

[Pedersen]

I'm not sure I buy that explanation, not entirely, anyway. It's a factor, but I don't believe it can be all of it.

First off: Whether or not the fact that the violence is cartoonish makes it better or not was simply a subjective statement on the type of game play exercised by both games. A more cartoonish type of game is harder to take seriously, in my opinion.

Now, some other points to ponder:

I first bought a Playstation 2 specifically to play GTA3. I don't think I'd even heard of it before the big brouhaha started happening in the media because of it. I was curious, it sounded fun, so I went and bought it. Found out it was a blast, and bought the next games as well. But that's me

You're right that kids aren't as likely to play Scarface. It's a movie turned game, and the movie is over 20 years old. That plays a part in it, definitely. But that doesn't explain other games which are much more intense than the whole GTA series, such as Doom 3, Resident Evil (most any of them), any of which are more likely to be played by kids than the GTA series, I think (though I admit to not having facts to back this up).

Now, add in another Rock Star title, Bully. Before it was ever released, it was being challenged in court. Without that, I very seriously doubt that I would have bought it, since I would not have heard of it, and would not have looked at the box in the store.

My point there is that, for some reason, the media is making these games popular, and at the same time fueling the debate. And that's where my confusion comes in: If the media makes them, then why aren't they going after the truly horrific games?

Take a look at Doom 3, which features lots of normal people who have been hideously mutated by evil forces, many of them turned into what looks like the walking dead.

Any of the Resident Evil games show scads of zombies, all of which you want to shoot in the head. Less ammo gets used, leaving you more for the boss fights later. In short, you get rewarded for making the deadliest shots you can make, compared to GTA, which pretty much does not care where you hit, just that you do hit.

Tons of other games out there do the same thing. GTA, on the violence scale, is quite mild in comparison to games that kids could very much have an interest in buying.

I can't help but come back to my original thought: For some twisted reason, sex in the GTA series is what makes it at the forefront of the debate. Especially when you add in that a significant chunk of what I read about for that debate is the sex in the series.

And I don't understand why people get upset about that, but are okay with the rest.

[Boozy]

First off: Whether or not the fact that the violence is cartoonish makes it better or not was simply a subjective statement on the type of game play exercised by both games. A more cartoonish type of game is harder to take seriously, in my opinion.

Oh, I completely agree with you. The cartoony violence in GTA is almost funny to me, but when my husband plays Resident Evil I can't even watch. Even though car theft is real and killing zombies isn't.

For some twisted reason, sex in the GTA series is what makes it at the forefront of the debate. Especially when you add in that a significant chunk of what I read about for that debate is the sex in the series

People are worried about the sexual content? Wow. That seems to be a very small component of the game, and correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it only hinted at?

I started another thread in this forum on the sex vs. violence double standard. Its always baffled me, too.

[Greenday]

Vice City is the GTA where you can own a strip club right? Other than girls dancing in skimping clothing, you don't actually see anything. I honestly don't feel GTA is nearly as big a deal as people make it out to be.

As one of my facebook groups says, video games don't kill people, stupid people kill people. Blaming video games for violence just means no one is willing to take responsibility for their actions or anyone else's.

[Pedersen]

Yep, in Vice City, you can own a strip club. And in one of the other clubs, the bartendress is wearing pasties, and that's about it.

And that's the most sexual you get without modifying the game.

And yet people have fits about the Hot Coffee scandal (google it if you don't believe me), right on up to Hillary Clinton proposing some sort of law be passed to prevent this ever happening again.

And on the other hand, I'm seeing games that are 100 times worse.

However, I think my wife hit it on the head: It's the name. No one else has named a game after an illegal action as far as I know.

That would, at least, explain why the media latched onto it.

[squall]

However, I think my wife hit it on the head: It's the name. No one else has named a game after an illegal action as far as I know.

That would, at least, explain why the media latched onto it.

There was a role-playing game, made by a small group of people, that is based on the Columbine High school massacre. In the game, you play the role of the shooters. There is also a game that lets you play the role of the JFK shooter. These did get media attention, but as far as I know they are not sold commercially. They are available by download. Understandably, the media was up in arms over these games.

[Nightwolf]

I'm actually doing my 2nd semester Final in English Comp. on the subject of "Do violent video games make violent kids?"

It's a persuasive essay that I need to write to something that really strikes a nerve. And for me, this does.

I can honestly say, I knew about Scarface waaaaay before it was released. There were TV adds for it, Magazine adds for it, and other publicity that was missed by some of the members here. I guess it all depends on what shows you watch. It seems that channels like Spike TV, USA, and G4 were the main ones showing footage of it. So it wasn't widespread. But I saw the same adds for GTA on those channels as well.

I played all kinds of video games as a child and I can't tell you one single time I told my mother. "Hey ma, I'm going to jump into the sewer to go look for my mentor Mr. Rat Face, and then we're going to do Kung Fu on some metal head." Or "Hey, I'm going down the street to start a bar fight!" ala Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat. Sure, we emulated the movies like Predator and Aliens with our toy guns and played games throughout the entire neighboorhood like "Caputure and Rescue" If anything, it actually taught us a good deal about working together as a team to free captured comrades and to listen to each other to work toward a common goal. All while having a good time and getting some exercise. We knew the difference between fake and real.

As for the sex issue, The Sims 2 was another game that came under major fire as you could remove the blurry parts of that game as well and you could also replace the images with more "Adult" images. (people have waaay too much free time on their hands) If kids want to look at sex images, they will find a way to do it. The more parents get on them about it, the more their curiosity is peaked as to "why" they shouldn't. Someone knows someone who has access to porn sites or even access to playboys.

As far as that columbine game......THAT is just plain wrong. There someone needs to be involved. Nobody should be making anything off of a tragedy such as that. Granted they are free, they still get publicity and noticed by doing it. So they are gaining, "something" out of it.

But please, keep on going. I'd love to have more info for my essay. It's a 1500 worder that I need to have some great facts for. Already have several articles including one from PSM with a Psycologist that actually uses games like Quake and Doom to help kids with anger issues. It's a rather interesting read.

[powerboy]

That is what I do not understand. Sure video games has violence now-a-days. But so what. Only stupid people, are going to do a copy cat version of the game.