Violence in Video Games

[Will-Mun]

Okay, so I've been seeing this topic here and there in the board, but never a thread dedicated to the topic as a whole. So I thought I'd make one! This is where we talk about Video Games, the people who think their violent blood filled murder simulators, and the people who think they are JUST FUCKING GAMES.

We'll talk about people like Jack Thompson and Hillary Clinton, and people like Gabe and Tycho from Penny Arcade, and our favorite Enson Wil Wheaton.

I'd like to hear the general opinion of the people here before I chime in...But your probably already know my opinion from how I wrote all this up.

[Kara_CS]

I'll go first. The very idea of games making kids violent is total bullcrap. I think that it's possible that kids who are already prone to violence due to other factors (abuse, family, whatever) may take interest in some games for other reasons than they were intended, but games do not create violent people. Everyone likes to point out that the Columbine kids made a model of their school in Doom, but they like to forget the fact that one of the guys told his dad the night before that he was going to kill other kids at school the next day and the dad paid no attention to it. I still maintain that this was one last cry for help. Had the father sat down with him and talked to him, maybe things would have been different. Maybe all those kids would still be alive.

Back on topic, there was the Virginia Tech guy. Again, he was already pretty messed up, games had nothing to do with it.

Jack Thompson is a horse's ass.

When I worked at Circuit Shitty, parents would buy Grand Theft Auto: Vice City for their kids that were 8-9 years old. Parents didn't give a rat's ass to find out what the game was about. My parents didn't care about the ESRB when it first formed, and parents today don't either. Game ratings are just a way to cover the developers' asses in case someone who did ignore the clearly marked rating gets offended. I would literally have kids ask their parents if they'd please oh please buy this game and mom and/or dad wouldn't even ask what it was about because they were trained to whip out the Mastercard on demand. One of my favorite examples (I've mentioned it before), was a woman who asked me about Turok: Evolution for PS2. She wanted to buy a game for her son, who loved dinosaurs. He was 7. I told her in no unclear terms that yes, it had dinosaurs, but that the goal of the game was to kill them with a wide assortment of heavy artillary. She thought for a moment then said, "Well... he DOES love dinosaurs. Okay, I'll get it." WTF, bitch?

Now, I'm not contradicting myself here. These games will not make kids vilolent, but selling drugs out of an ice cream truck and having dino guts splattered all over the place aren't exactly the kind of thing that parents want their younguns exposed to. So they'll get all offended and upset at the evil company that made the game, or the evil girl at the electronics store who sold it, and forget who made the decision to buy it without checking the facts first.

I've played Doom. I've played Duke Nukem, Fallout, Quake, Mortal Kombat, Half Life, Resident Evil, Goldeneye, Metal Gear Solid, and many other similar "violent" games that are always getting criticized. And let me say this - If I were to shoot a gun at someone, I can guarantee you I'd miss. Hand me a rocket launcher, and I'd probably only succeed in blasting myself to oblivion, if I could figure out how to load and fire the damn thing. There's no automatic target-lock in real life. There's also kickback, potential backfire, no unlimited ammo cheat or God mode, or pulling anyone's heart out through their chest. Games don't train anyone to do anything. Metal Gear made me about as capable a Covert-Ops soldier as Trauma Center made me a surgeon. I'm not a bad cook, but my cooking skill did not increase a bit from Cooking Mama. Mario showed me nothing of plumbing, but I could probably manage to stomp on a turtle. Link never leaves me disappointed, but if I picked up a sword I'd probably wind up missing a finger or two. Games are nothing but mindless entertainment.

And let's not forget that Japan, which is the home of many, many violent shows/games/sports/tentacle rape, the kind of things that would make most of the whiners in the US run crying to their attorneys, and they have a fairly low crime rate considering they have 200 million people.

I end with a word from George Carlin: The truth is, no one knows enough or cares enough to stop the real violence, so their answer is to tone down the pretend violence. It's superstition. "Maybe if we tone down the pretend violence, the real violence will go away. Or not seem so bad."
And maybe the father who forbids his son to watch violent television will not beat the shit out him when he disobeys.
Maybe.

[rahmota]

Violence comes from people not paying attention and taking responsibility for themselves and to each other.

I live and grew up in the country around real firearms. Hunting and target shooting always has been a part of life and the culture and for the most part we have not had the kinds of violence issues that other areas may have had. Why? Because the parents of my age where responsible enough to teach proper usage and responsibility. Somehow a lot fo people between then and now and over the years have forgotten things. Forgotten that by not teaching responsible behavior, not paying attention to whats going on. Parents have forgotten that "meddling" and "controlling" their kids lives is not a bad thing. Its actually what a parent is supposed to do.

Meddle in a kids life and you may just save it.

[Will-Mun]

Everyone likes to point out that the Columbine kids made a model of their school in Doom, but they like to forget the fact that one of the guys told his dad the night before that he was going to kill other kids at school the next day and the dad paid no attention to it. I still maintain that this was one last cry for help. Had the father sat down with him and talked to him, maybe things would have been different. Maybe all those kids would still be alive.

Ah yes, the Columbine kids, a horrible incident where two outcast kids thought the only way to escape their pain was death, and decided to take some of those causing the pain with them... It's tragic, it's sad for all parties involved, the shooters and their victims, and it it used by more Politicians to push their ignorant views on media as a scape goat!

Do you know what the kids of Columbine did the night before the shooting? They didn't play Doom, they didn't play any video game at all...

...They went bowling.

The fact they found Doom in one of the kid's rooms isn't exactly a big shock, it was probably the most POPULAR game of the time, I guarantee you'd find it in half of the students home of that school.

And no, you're not contradicting yourself. These games are NOT MADE FOR CHILDREN. They are rated for a reason (despite the rating system being a joke and in serious need of reform). When I worked at Gamestop I NEVER let a kid under the age of 17 buy an M rated game, and I always told the parents about the games.

"You realize this game is a gory bloody massacre right?"
"It is? Then never mind, you're not getting it Brian."

Yes the rating system DOES work sometimes.

People need to get with the time, Video Games aren't FOR kids. They're for anyone and everyone... The general demograph for an average video game? Early Teens to Mid-Thirties. And it's climbing every year as gamers start to get older.

[MadMike]

The fact they found Doom in one of the kid's rooms isn't exactly a big shock, it was probably the most POPULAR game of the time, I guarantee you'd find it in half of the students home of that school.

And contrary to what the media would have us believe, games like that do not teach you how to use a gun. A real gun doesn't help you aim like the ones in a lot of games do, and a real gun will knock you on your ass if you're not prepared.

While violent video games didn't exist when I was a kid, guns did. In fact, I grew up in a rural area where most people had guns, so I grew up around them. I don't think they were even kept locked up, but I never messed with them. I was told at a very young age that they can hurt or even kill you, and that I should never touch them without an adult present. Then when I got a little older, I was allowed to shoot some target, and eventually give hunting a try.

I was also bullied quite a bit when I was younger. I was smaller than most of the other kids, so I was an easy target until I hit a growth spurt at about 12. And I have to admit, sometimes I did fantasize about getting one of the unlocked guns and blowing their fucking heads off. But that's as far as it went. I knew that if I actually tried to act on these bad thoughts, I'd have far worse problems that I already had.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I will also point out that being able to tell the difference between fantasy and reality is a major player here. Also, I've done loads of the things that the bleeding hearts say make kids into murderers... and I haven't gone on a killing spree.

[Greenday]

Video games are an awesome way to let out anger. And by letting out anger in video games, kids are LESS likely to take out there anger on real living beings.

[Nightwolf]

Hence the article I pointed out from PSM about the Psycologist actually using games like Doom 3 and Quake 4 on kids to help with anger issues.

We actually just went through a similar issue with violence in all media outlets when 3 kids were exposed for putting a plot together to set off a bomb in the school and go on a shooting spree.

Lots of good info here on it.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/...template=theme


Again, if we take a look at the kids, I would suspect them to be the types of kids that don't have many close friends, are usually considered loners, and get picked on frequently. I've been saying it for years. It's got nothing to do with the games, music, or anything like that. It's all about whats going on in their life right now. In reality! How their parents are, how they are treated socially, and how their mental state is during all this. I think times are getting harder for kids in school and I remember how it was, it was brutal when you were not running with the popular crowd. Luckily, I found my niche.

I grew out my hair so it looked like a typical 80's rockband hairdo. (Bret Michales, Joe Elliot) I wore heavy metal T-shirts like Slayer, Iron Maiden, and Testament, and kept quiet. Most of the kids left me alone. Sure there were rumors that I was a satan worshiper, and did dope. But everyone left me the f%^k alone. I had a group of close friends I ran with, Oddly enough none of them had any of the same things I had. (no metal shirts, no long hair) and only those people really knew what I was like. And I was fine with it. Girls were a bit frightened, so yes, getting a date for the prom was a bitch, but I managed to find a few that were willing to find out who the real me was.

So yeah, I blame society for this crap. If people would pay attention to whats going on around them, react when pieces of crap seek to better themselves by bashing and beating down those deemed less worthy themselves, and actually take an interest in learning about other people, this stuff can probably be avoided. Sadly, I don't see this happening.

[Seshat]

So yeah, I blame society for this crap. If people would pay attention to whats going on around them, react when pieces of crap seek to better themselves by bashing and beating down those deemed less worthy themselves, and actually take an interest in learning about other people, this stuff can probably be avoided. Sadly, I don't see this happening.

When you're cornered, with nothing to lose, you do desperate things. That's what it amounts to.

And yes, there are a few people in the world who can't separate fantasy from reality. Most of those people end up in some sort of institution very quickly: usually a residential hospital or jail. Some of them end up in politics or in so-called* religion, making loud noises in the media about the issue of the day.


* I have nothing but respect for the religious people out in the streets doing good. I have nothing but disdain for people who use religion to prop up their egos.

[ShockQueen]

It's amazing how in our country, things like violent video games and violent cartoons are the scapegoat of those thinking "WTF is wrong with these kids?". It's really not the fault of those inanimate things........it's really upbringing. It's how you raise your next generation. I mean, let's look in Japan. Kids there watch all manner of bloody, gut-splattered, nude-as-heck stuff that would make any blue-haired granny blush about 50,000 shades of red, but do they cause violent abuse? NO. Wanna know why? Upbringing....that, and discipline growing up. If you teach your kids what is real and what is not, and tell them to know the difference fantasy and real life, then it's all good.

You don't go shooting your teacher in the face with a bazooka - you just.DON'T.DO.THAT - PERIOD! Games are the easiest target/scapegoat because of what they portray. Wanna know what is causing our youth to go apecrap? Look in your own houses/backyards parents.........or a mirror.

[Will-Mun]

As much as I hate the anti-video game movement, and started the thread to show just how asinine it is, we also have to realize something... It's just the way culture works.

The culture, of America at least, follows this system over and over again as each new generation emerges. Fifty years ago Rock and Roll was evil, and was corrupting the youth, 30 years ago movies were... Today it's Video Games.

But things will get better as time passes, as our generation becomes the 'adults' of the world.... We're not going to look down at our children and say their entertainment is EEEEVIL!

I hope.

[Seshat]

But things will get better as time passes, as our generation becomes the 'adults' of the world.... We're not going to look down at our children and say their entertainment is EEEEVIL!

I hope.

Alas, our generation does contain that percentage who are stupid, and that percentage who are motivated by greed or power-hunger to manipulate the stupid. And scapegoats are easy ways to manipulate the stupid.