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When does punishment go too far?

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  • When does punishment go too far?

    So sort of bringing this over out of the candy thread....

    Kids do stupid shit. Especially teenagers. Sometimes, even adults and young children do stupid shit.

    So, how far is too far?

    Lace brought up a good example of young kids getting into a fight. Technically, one kid who beats up another kid is committing assault. Do we call the cops and send the kids to juvie? Or do we let them sort it out, bring it to the parents attention, and let it go?

    Kids going out on mischief night. I have made my point fairly clear that I think as long as the kids aren't doing malicious, permanent property damage, I think it is overkill to get the cops involved.

    How about a bunch of kids playing together and someone gets hurt. Do we sue the parents whose property they were on at the time? Or do we teach our kids to stand up, brush themselves off and move on with life. Because...well, shit happens, and not all accidents can be prevented.

    I definitely grew up in the school of "shit happens, brush it off" and take responsibility for the shit you did wrong. That being said, if the cops were to have gotten called on me for some reason, I know my parents would not have made a stink. Mostly because...well...I did it, now I get to pay for it. But we also didn't believe in involving the police in most things that could be sorted out by discussion with the parents.

    Some examples from my childhood:
    No one got mad and called the cops when I was wrestling around in the basement with bean bag chairs with my friend Larry, and I pushed him and he cracked his head open on the chair. He still has a small scar from that *chuckle* I clearly remember it was such a small cut, but it bled all over the place! I never felt so bad in all my short life up to that point, and he didn't even need stitches! Anyway, that was the first time we had been beating on each other and learned that, shit can happen.

    No one sued the school when my friend Donny smacked his head on the slide during aftercare and had to go to the hospital and get stitches. I still remember him coming to school with the big bald spot on his head and anti-bacterial goo smothered all over it, bragging about his trip to the hospital. Luckily for him, the hair grew back in and covered that one up.

    That's enough from me for now. What about the rest of you?

    EDIT: Come to think of it, a more appropriate title for this thread may have been, "What constitutes an overreaction?"
    Last edited by DesignFox; 11-10-2009, 08:02 PM. Reason: thought of better title. even though I can't change it! lol
    "Children are our future" -LaceNeilSinger
    "And that future is fucked...with a capital F" -AmethystHunter

  • #2
    My take on it is that some of it is just accidents, and some of it is just life lessons.

    I mean two kids getting into a fight is usually some form of standing up for yourself, or others. I think the problem with this world is that now we've got adults cheering on fights, which adults are supposed to be breaking up the fights before someone gets hurt. Or the fights are unfair. Like 10 people show up to beat up 1 kid.

    As far as people getting hurt. Accidents happen. My older daughter has had her share of accidents, but they're lessons. I wouldn't think about sueing unless someone else was to blame. I mean like the case of the slide. If you fall off the slide you've got to turn not to mess with the slide. But again we live in a sue happy society now. So there are people that wouldn't think twice about sueing

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    • #3
      If two kids are fighting, and they are kids, other than some sort of disciplinary action that punishes them but not drastically so would be fitting. If it's a group beating one kid, harsher punishments are deserved.

      Mischief Night? If you get caught, you brought that one on yourself. I see perfect reason to have the cops get involved. Because it only gets worse as they get older. Some nice mandatory community service should suffice.

      If a kid gets hurt on someone's property as a result of rough housing, I think suing would be over the top, but if someone got hurt because the property has random, unsafe conditions, then I would fully support it.
      Violence has resolved more conflicts than anything else. The contrary opinion that violence doesn't solve anything is merely wishful thinking at its worst. - Starship Troopers

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      • #4
        Greenday, what if the property was marked as condemned? Or an empty construction spot? There are some GREAT games to be had there, some that you couldn't have anywhere else.

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        • #5
          You know for the assault question? yeah call the cops. As someone who was beaten repeatedly by the same people over and over again and noone did a freaking thing call the freaking cops and have the kid go to a detention center.

          I'm sorry but I can off the top of my head list off a few individuals who should have been locked up for a while.

          This is of course for repeat offenders, but honestly while punishments can go too far there still needs to be consequences for people's actions and writing lines or having a couple days off of school never seemed like that much of a punishment to me when my nose is bleeding and I have a blackeye for no other reason than he felt like it.

          I think I'm probably heading into a bullying thread at this point so I'll stop.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by kamn View Post
            Greenday, what if the property was marked as condemned? Or an empty construction spot? There are some GREAT games to be had there, some that you couldn't have anywhere else.
            I mark trespassing as "at your own risk" type of thing.
            Violence has resolved more conflicts than anything else. The contrary opinion that violence doesn't solve anything is merely wishful thinking at its worst. - Starship Troopers

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Greenday View Post
              If two kids are fighting, and they are kids, other than some sort of disciplinary action that punishes them but not drastically so would be fitting. If it's a group beating one kid, harsher punishments are deserved.
              What about one kid beating up the same kid over and over again?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by gremcint View Post
                What about one kid beating up the same kid over and over again?
                Repeat offenders obviously need harsher punishments. Begin with a short stay in juvie then up the time if he repeats.
                Violence has resolved more conflicts than anything else. The contrary opinion that violence doesn't solve anything is merely wishful thinking at its worst. - Starship Troopers

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                • #9
                  The thing is if there is no record how can you tell if they are repeat offenders. If I have kids on my property that are destroying it, then I will call the police. I don't care if it is your first time. It will be the last time on my property.

                  On the subjects of kids will be kids and get injured. It depends on malice behind the injury. If it is 2 teenage boys goofing off and one gets injured, it happens. There is no issue there. If it is one kid jumping on another kid and beating the crap out of the other kid then there is malice behind it. The attacker needs to be arrested and disciplined.
                  "Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe" -H. G. Wells

                  "Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed" -Sir Francis Bacon

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                  • #10
                    I don't know. Really depends on the intent I guess. I mean when I was a child, I broke into places becauses friends dared me too. I was caught and got in trouble. ALOT.

                    One time my /friend/ came over and wanted me to go with him and his brother to field next door like we always do. we get there. Cops are everywhere. They grab us. My friend and brother set fire to the fucking field nad blamed me as the mastermind. Boy did I ever get in trouble, but no-one sued.


                    Then cops were called on me, because a friend found a lottery ticket, and ask me if I thought it was a winner, I thought it was a winner and I'll get my mom to cash it in for us. I give it to my mom, who gave it back and said it wasn't. I go back to my friend, give it back. He rips it up with his sister and throws it in my face claiming that I switched it out. Whatever, I go back home. Later cops come to my place, saying that my friend's dad claim I broke into his house and stoled his $100 dollar lottery winner and gave it to my mom to switch out.

                    Nothing with the cops really came of that. But it started a war between me and the apartment complex, to the point where they were telling the young girls to tell their mothers I was pulling down their pants. Lots of angry moms at me. My mom didn't belive them since I was grounded and basically was forced to stay in my room. But we did have to move out because everyone thought I was a sick freak.


                    Gawd I hated my childhood. Made me a very bitter and hateful person.
                    Toilet Paper has been "bath tissue" for the longest time, and it really chaps my ass - Blas
                    I AM THE MAN of the house! I wear the pants!!! But uh...my wife buys the pants so....yeah.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by gremcint View Post
                      You know for the assault question? yeah call the cops. As someone who was beaten repeatedly by the same people over and over again and noone did a freaking thing call the freaking cops and have the kid go to a detention center.

                      <snip>This is of course for repeat offenders....<snip>
                      I agree there. If a kid is bullying another kid and repeatedly having problems, something needs to be looked into! I'm sorry to hear your teachers and adminitrators did not take action.

                      I think if two kids get into a scrap it's completely different from the bully repeatedly beating on one or multiple targets. That kid requires harsher punishment for sure.

                      Same for kids doing DAMAGE. They need to know fast that damaging things is not acceptable. I like the community service idea for those hooligans. XD
                      "Children are our future" -LaceNeilSinger
                      "And that future is fucked...with a capital F" -AmethystHunter

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