US Committed Murder Tod...I Mean Carried Out the Death Penalty

[kibbles]

Way to progress a meaningful dialogue. No, really, I mean that. Absolutely no one is going to fear disagreeing with you after that. It's posts like this that really make the other side think about their position, and why they hold it, and maybe, just maybe, change their mind.

I'm not changing my mind. IMO the death penalty is just a legalized form of murder, nothing more, nothing less.

I am in no way pitying the criminal; but, I still do not believe in the death penalty. And it's unrealistic to say that everyone who is against the death penalty is a sympathizer with criminals.

[blas87]

I gave up a long time ago trying to get others to change their minds. Everyone's allowed an opinion. Opinions are like assholes.

I just felt it a good healthy means of letting out frustration. Ya know, being called vengeful and spiteful and all kinds of other lovely things for believing in the death penalty and for speaking my mind and of my own experiences really made me want to change my mind

[Greenday]

Wow. I have to wonder if that came from a standard issue jump to conclusions mat (tm, patent pending, protected by copyright, etc), or if you had it custom made? Considering that her comparison had something to do with the way things are here, and your response seemed to have been copied from an alternate dimension where she actually said something similar to "fuck the accused, the only thing they should get is boned. Repeatedly.", I'm going to guess custom made.

McDreidel didn't even imply that the right should be taken away. She made a simple comparison: Since death row inmates have "A", the costs of executions go up. If death row inmates did not have "A", then costs for execution would be lower.

Was this right to be taken away not the right to an attorney and to fight their case? It seemed to be what was suggested. I don't see how we can save money otherwise while just giving him the death penalty.

[guywithashovel]

I tend to have mixed feelings about the death penalty. It's one of those issues that I flip flop on. Someone will make a good argument against the death penalty, and I'll think "Gee, that's a good point." But then someone else will make a good argument for it and the same thing will happen.

In this case, just like in most other murder cases, I would have been satisfied if the DC sniper had been given a life sentence. After all, I often tend to think that a life sentence in prison is a punishment WORSE than the death penalty. I mean, think about it. You'd be forced to live in a cell that's probably about 6ft by 9ft, and you may even have to share that with another person. You'd have to eat when they tell you to. Sleep when they tell you to. You'd have to avoid getting into altercations with other inmates. I often catch myself thinking that I'd rather just take the injection as opposed to living the rest of my life like that. Then again, I would never do anything deserving of the death penalty.

On the other hand, I never have much sympathy for people who do get sentenced to death (unless I suspect that they're innocent). Take the DC sniper. He had an entire city living in fear of their lives for several weeks.

[BroomJockey]

Was this right to be taken away not the right to an attorney and to fight their case? It seemed to be what was suggested. I don't see how we can save money otherwise while just giving him the death penalty.

*sigh* What she was giving was the explanation as to why it was more expensive for the death penalty vs. life incarceration. To have taken it as an actual suggestion was a leap of Herculean proportions, and not helpful to the conversation at all.

[MadMike]

We've had innocent people executed.

If you lock someone up, and later discover you locked up the wrong guy, you can release him and let him get on with his life. If you execute someone and later find out it was the wrong guy, you can't bring him back. And for that reason, I'm against the death penalty... normally.

In this case, I don't feel sorry for the bastard, just like I didn't feel sorry for Timothy McVeigh when they put him down.

[DesignFox]

Gerrinson said what I've said everytime this topic comes up. Put the mad dog down.

RK said a whole host of other reasons why I also agree with the death penalty.

I agree with blas, and I'm not saying everyone does it, but I'm noticing a trend where people seem to sympathize more and more with these scumbag criminals than with the victims they hurt.

I don't feel the death penalty should be applied lightly, or even in the case of most first time offenders. But these animals that murder multiple people, and it can be proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that they killed multiple people, deserve exactly what they get. Perhaps it is even kinder than locking them up for life, but I don't care about that. If you put the scumbag down, they 100% for sure can't harm another living being.

There was at least one case discussed on this very board where a repeat offender escaped from prison and committed the very crime he was incarcerated. Had we gotten it right the first time and fried his ass, he'd have had one or two less victims on his tally.

I don't generally like to put a price on life, but in very select and extreme cases, protecting innocent people comes first.

[Fashion Lad!]

I'm glad I'm not the minority opinion here. Too many people care too much about the murderer and not the victim or their families and friends. And that anyone who believes in the death penalty are mean, evil spirited vile people who can't get over things and move on with life and are bitter and vengeful blah blah blah blah blah...

I don't think anyone said that at all.

My whole point is who are we to decide who lives and who dies? It wasn't the DC Sniper's right to decide nor is it ours.

Interesting Map

[HYHYBT]

The US condemned the DC Sniper for murdering people because murder is wrong! So as a result we murder him...Seems a tad backwards to me, neh?

Not all killing is murder, either legally or morally.

Not that I think the death penalty is the best way to handle things, but it's not at all the same as what he did to earn it.

Edit, because the thread grew two pages longer before I got around to posting: If it were up to me, life without parole would be the maximum sentence. Not because I think death is too cruel, or because I sympathize with criminals, but because I do not want anyone to be the way they are, and as long as there is life there's the possibility of change. Which wouldn't get them released, of course. And yes, I know how this sounds.

I'd also offer lethal injection, not as a penalty imposed by the court, but as an option for those who choose to take it.

[joe hx]

The way I feel about it, when you kill someone for killing, you become that which you wish to destroy. Sort of like Sin in FF... 10?

I do have mixed feelings about the death penalty. My disagreeing with it is often tested when I hear of crimes such as the DC sniper, Tim McVeigh, people raping children...

[RecoveringKinkoid]

So Blas is worked up over a serial murderer and glad he's dead.

Frankly, I don't see that as a sentiment that she needs to feel bad about. I would say that is a perfectly natural and reasonable reaction.

[Greenday]

So Blas is worked up over a murderer and glad he's dead.

Frankly, I don't see that as a sentiment that she needs to feel bad about. I would say that is a perfectly natural and reasonable reaction.

I'd agree with that.

[Fashion Lad!]

So Blas is worked up over a serial murderer and glad he's dead.

Frankly, I don't see that as a sentiment that she needs to feel bad about. I would say that is a perfectly natural and reasonable reaction.

I never said she should feel bad. I'm defending myself from her basically saying that I care too much about the DC Sniper when that's just not the case. I do agree with natural reaction to someone who has killed people being dead. I not sad that he's dead. I don't think he deserved to live. HOWEVER, I don't think it's our place to say who lives and who dies.

[BroomJockey]

I agree with blas, and I'm not saying everyone does it, but I'm noticing a trend where people seem to sympathize more and more with these scumbag criminals than with the victims they hurt.
.

I'm not saying it, and I don't think anyone else has said it. What I've said before is this:

The death penalty is revenge.

No. Full stop. You cannot argue that. It is possible to build a prison where someone cannot escape from. In fact, how many criminals escape from maximum security prisons each year in the US? Less than 1 in 100,000? To say "to make sure they never do it again" is a crap reason. If you're worried about them getting out legally, then you need parole reform. Not revenge killings. As a society, we need to be better than that. To use death as a punishment, when it's irreversible is foolhardy at best. My concern isn't the guilty. It's the innocent convicted as guilty, and the moral fibre of society. Killing cannot be acceptable when done by the government, but then not okay when done by an individual. The government is made up of individuals, and should not be granted special dispensation just because there's a group of them. There's no special wisdom imparted just because you're on a jury, or become a judge, or a legislator. How can society advance as a whole, and improve morally and ethically if we're taking revenge in the form of justice. That method of thinking permeates a population, if it takes hold. "I don't need to find a way to work through this problem, I just need to do what makes me feel better."

Add on top the fact that it doesn't lower crime rates, costs more, can potentially kill innocent people, is usually inequitably applied across race, gender, and other metrics (men more likely than women, blacks more likely than whites, poor more likely than rich, etc.), all together makes the death penalty a likely candidate for "Stupidest Fucking Idea of All Time."

[RecoveringKinkoid]

HOWEVER, I don't think it's our place to say who lives and who dies.

But it IS our place to protect ourselves. We have put people into power who's responsibility to us is to protect us.

These people fail every single day when they let out murderers and rapists to murder and rape again. And when they DO let these people out, they are not letting out reformed people who have learned compassion and morals. They are letting out hardened, dangerous people who have learned how not to get caught again. It will take us longer to stop them next time.

Or maybe we don't let them out and they kill a guy in prison. After all, why not? People pay for hits in prison...it's not like lifers have anything to lose. And next thing you know, they've failed that dead prisoner, who might be scumbag ,but he wasn't sentenced to death.

I'd say if you want to live in our society and enjoy this society's protection, do not act against this society by killing it's members. Because this society has a duty to protect itself...and eliminating threats does that very effectively.