Pregnant Woman wins right to sue police that arrested her as she was in labor...

[Greenday]

Exactly, Blas. Also, yeah...every time I've been stopped they shine their little lights all around through the windows of my van looking for that eight bales of ganja they just know I am transporting. They look at me, they look at my passengers, they walk around my vehicle looking at everthing.

They didn't see that there was at least SOMETHING alarming going on? If they are that thick, maybe they shouldn't be cops.

You are still making the assumption that the traffic stop lasted minutes long. The story, if anything, hints at the traffic stop involving the woman not giving the cops a chance to talk, only telling them she was sick then her bailing. Not nearly enough time to even look inside.

[DesignFox]

I've been back and forth on this for days now. I know this isn't a popular opinion, but I have to back Greenday in this argument.

Where the cops went wrong was in removing the woman from the ER. Up until that point, they probably had no idea what was going on and just had to stop her. I watched the video and she wasn't slowing down or giving any indication that she would slow down, so, they had no choice but to stop her immediately.

I'm sorry, but if the cops do a traffic stop, that is one of the most dangerous things they do in their line of work. If you don't give them an explanation and just leave the scene, they have to figure something is up and go after you.

At night, they flash their light around your car, not because they think you might have drugs, but to double check that you don't have any weapons. They have no idea what state of mind you might be in when they pull you over and whether or not you may get violent because you were stopped.

I say that they did what they had to do. UNTIL they removed her from the ER. When they caught her, they should have spoken to her, realized she really WAS in distress, and let her go! According to the article, this is why she is being allowed to sue them. Not for tackling her, but for removing her from the ER, and then arresting her.

[Fryk]

You are still making the assumption that the traffic stop lasted minutes long. The story, if anything, hints at the traffic stop involving the woman not giving the cops a chance to talk, only telling them she was sick then her bailing. Not nearly enough time to even look inside.

Again, Greenday, surely they would have sized her up before they even asked for her license and registration, which the article says she stayed long enough to give them. They would have HAD to have at least enough time to see something was amiss. Maybe not exactly what was wrong, but something should have sent off bells in their heads.

I agree with you, DesignFox. I wasn't saying that they shouldn't have followed her. Hell, that probably helped to keep traffic out of her way, anyways. But once they got to the E.R., any sane person should have been able to put two and two together. Hmmmm... woman in obvious distress, claiming she's bleeding and sick, agitated enough to leave the scene, shows up at a hospital.... that must mean.... CRIMINAL MASTERMIND! ATTACK! ATTACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Nyoibo]

Hmmmm... woman in obvious distress, claiming she's bleeding and sick, agitated enough to leave the scene, shows up at a hospital.... that must mean.... CRIMINAL MASTERMIND! ATTACK! ATTACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Or maybe METH HEAD TWEEKING!!!!!!! People doing something illegal can be in obvious distress, especially when stopped by the police and of course no criminal has ever lied to try and get away with something.

[Fryk]

Or maybe ZOMBIE ATTACK!!!!!! Or maybe MALFUNCTIONING ANDROID!!!!!!! Or RADIOACTIVE SPIDERBITE VICTIM!!!! Or....

Or MAYBE, seeing as how she got to the E.R., and ran in screaming that she was having a medical emergency, and seeing how the nearest cop chasing her was close enough to hear her shouting, EXACTLY WHAT SHE SAID SHE WAS!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Shangri-laschild]

I'm not claiming I know what happened and all the details but just some things to think about...

Again, Greenday, surely they would have sized her up before they even asked for her license and registration, which the article says she stayed long enough to give them. They would have HAD to have at least enough time to see something was amiss. Maybe not exactly what was wrong, but something should have sent off bells in their heads.

People seem to keep making the assumption on how the stop went. For all we know she stopped the car and then the second they were at the back of her car she tossed her DL at them, yelled that she was sick (which they may or may not have heard), and then driven off. But it seems like it's being taken as a given that she gave the officers time to get up to her window and get a good look at her. Maybe they were able to but we don't know that so it shouldn't be taken as a given.

Or maybe METH HEAD TWEEKING!!!!!!! People doing something illegal can be in obvious distress, especially when stopped by the police and of course no criminal has ever lied to try and get away with something.

Exactly. Lets say you pull over a drug addict who's rushing to the hospital because he's desperate to try to scam pain killers. He's going to be sweating and freaking out. And the fact that she's pregnant means nothing on that fact. There are pregnant woman who do drugs.

Also it seems that people keep stating two things:
-She was under a lot of emotional stress and probably frantic.

When that happens you are not thinking the best. I am sorry I know at the time I was not the most verbally capable during my experience.

-The officers should have been able to clearly understand everything she was saying and react accordingly when/if she tried to explain what was going on.
Those two don't seem to fit very well. Have you ever tried to talk to a hysterical person? They aren't always as clear as they think they are and it's not always easy to understand the meaning let alone the specific words. She may have been perfectly clear but then again she may have not been even if she thought she was.

Also it seems that it's being said that the only reason the officers could have possibly had to stop her in the hospital is because they thought she was a criminal. Stop and think about the idea of running frantically through an ER. Tons of ways for people to get hurt come to my mind. I would have been worried about her hurting others and herself.

How do you figure she was a threat? She wasn't armed. A black woman running does not constitute a threat. It wasn't like "Oh, my god, this woman is RUNNING! Stop her before she KILLS someone!"

Do we know that? We can’t see what’s in front of her. She could have been about to run into something that would hurt her. She could have been about to run into someone else and hurt them. No it wouldn’t have been intentional, but that doesn’t fix it. Someone frantically running through an ER like that is a risk.

If they REALLY wanted to stop a serious threat to other motorists, why didn't they get ahead of her and force her over

I’m not sure if you know how police are trained to stop a car chase, but just getting ahead of someone and forcing them over isn’t always as calm and gentle of an answer as you may think. Not to mention, if they had forcibly stopped her car, then she could have been further injured, someone else could have been injured, and it would have detained her from actually getting to the hospital even longer than them taking her outside did.

She'd told them already that she was sick, so perhaps they could have offered to drive her to the ER themselves. But they didn't for whatever reason, and she sped off.

Where does it say they didn’t offer a ride? Where does it say they had a chance to?

Uh, no. She was a threat up until the point they had her cornered. I like how you keep ignoring my point of why couldn't they simply have questioned her while being ready to take her down, instead of directly proceeding to taking her down.

By simply trying to talk to her, she was more likely to cause harm to herself, the officers, or other people in the ER. You’re talking about cornering a frantic pregnant woman.

. And then while we don't see it every hospital that I've been into has the ER check in booth rather close to the front door, and chances are she got to it, because a nurse talked the cops into letting her go. So that means she got to tell a nurse something before she was handcuffed and hauled off.

It doesn’t mean she had already talked to a nurse. The video just shows her rushing in and the police grabbing her. There’s no sign of her talking to anyone directly in that video. A nurse could have come out to see what was going on or happened to be coming in to work while the officers were out there with the woman for all we know.

I mean, I might have gone for "guns drawn" even. But fucking tackling someone who was rushing in to an ER. What if they'd killed her that way? Would you still defend their actions? Because with another person under similar circumstances, that could happen.

Guns drawn is not the lesser choice to a takedown move. I’d be willing to bet any officer who drew their gun in that situation would have had been fired. I know that’s what would happen in this department.

What about if because of her tunnel vision and panic, she had run into someone else there and they had died as a result? You can’t see what she was headed towards.

It IS their job to protect the public. This woman was public. They failed.

Also, yes that woman was the public. She wasn’t the only public present though.

Also, I'm not saying everything the officers did was right. Just trying to point some things out. And before it gets said, no, just because I don't assume that cops are power tripping racists doesn't mean I blindly side with them either. There's middle ground but it seems like the second you side with the officers, your argument gets shut down as "well you're all super pro cop so you're not objectively looking at the situation" so I'd like to make it clear where I stand. If an officer screwed up then no, he shouldn't get away with it. Bad cops make the good ones, the ones I do support, look bad even when they are doing what they're supposed to be doing and that ticks me off.

Not in this country, which is where all this happened. You are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

This counts for officers too....

[Fryk]

Just to make sure you know, I don't think all cops are power tripping racists. I don't even think THESE cops are power tripping racists. I DO think that they've blundered their way into a situation that has set them up for a world of hurt. Maybe they were new. Maybe they had, on that same day, already run into people who tried to scam them with a fake illness story. Whatever happened, I think they made the wrong decisions with her, and it's made about a trillion times worse because she was a pregnant woman.

"By simply trying to talk to her, she was more likely to cause harm to herself, the officers, or other people in the ER. You’re talking about cornering a frantic pregnant woman."

Why would they have to corner her? One of them could have talked to her, one could have stayed by the door in case she tried to bolt, and jumped in if they needed help. Or the one guy could have stopped and noticed what was going on when he heard her scream. I mean, the minute she started screaming that she was in labor, and bleeding, it's not like the staff of the ER would have just let her walk back out.

"Not to mention, if they had forcibly stopped her car, then she could have been further injured, someone else could have been injured, and it would have detained her from actually getting to the hospital even longer than them taking her outside did."

The only reason that she was not delayed longer at the hospital was because a nurse intervened on her behalf. We have no way to determine how long she would have been detained if the cops had their way.

Yes, there are many ways the stop might have went down. MAYBE she threw her I.D. out the window and sped off. It's possible. But it's not likely. I have a hard time believing that even a panicked person would think to do something like that. What I think happened is that they heard what this woman said and thought, "Scam!" I think that's the wrong way to handle things at any traffic stop. Giving her the benefit of the doubt would have led to far fewer complications than assuming guilt.

I think that they did the right thing following her to the ER. What they did after that was just wrong, in my eyes.

[Shangri-laschild]

Why would they have to corner her? One of them could have talked to her, one could have stayed by the door in case she tried to bolt, and jumped in if they needed help. Or the one guy could have stopped and noticed what was going on when he heard her scream. I mean, the minute she started screaming that she was in labor, and bleeding, it's not like the staff of the ER would have just let her walk back out.

The cornering her had been in response to someone who suggested just cornering her and trying to talk to her.

The only reason that she was not delayed longer at the hospital was because a nurse intervened on her behalf. We have no way to determine how long she would have been detained if the cops had their way.

I do agree that in that aspect the definitely messed up. Again, that was refering to a specific suggestion of trying to force her over. They didn't detain her by forcing her over which is good. They did detain her by pulling her outside of the hospital which wasn't good and would have ended up being just as bad or worse to her health.

Yes, there are many ways the stop might have went down. MAYBE she threw her I.D. out the window and sped off. It's possible. But it's not likely. I have a hard time believing that even a panicked person would think to do something like that.

You're right that it might not have happened. I just wanted to make the point that we can't assume that it went down like a normal traffic stop and that we don't know. And there are people like that who figure, I'm in a hurry, now you have my ID, we can sort this out when I'm not in a hurry. We run into people like that where I work and while the specific situation is not one we've had that I know of, it's not too much of a stretch from the people we have dealt with. And I can get the mentality if they weren't doing their job right at the stop or she knew ahead of time it was unlikely that they would be helpful. Screw this, me and my baby are in trouble, I'll deal with the concequenses later.

What I think happened is that they heard what this woman said and thought, "Scam!" I think that's the wrong way to handle things at any traffic stop. Giving her the benefit of the doubt would have led to far fewer complications than assuming guilt.

This is true. It gets really easy to think it's a scam sometimes. Most people, especially those in customer service jobs have similar problems where they hear certain scams often and it gets tricky to remind yourself that it's not always a lie. I'm not saying it makes it ok to handle it wrong when it's not a scam. Especially when you have a job where you're supposed to protect people. Just trying to point out that it gets easy to be skeptical somethings. And yeah, I really do wonder if the officer maybe hadn't been on the job for very long.

I think that they did the right thing following her to the ER. What they did after that was just wrong, in my eyes.

I still stand by the fact that racing through the ER isn't the safest thing to do and so I can see the justification for trying to stop her though it should have been stopping her and leading her to a doctor and then talking to her about what was going on either while the doctor was examining her or after.