Boy Scouts & Mormon Church being sued

[IDrinkaRum]

3 Brothers, John Doe 1, 2, and 3 are suing both the Mormon Church and the Boys Scouts of America for childhood sexual abuse by a youth leader

[bunnyboy]

Heh not surprising, and not the first time it's happened... given that the Mormon Church relies on the "power of discernment" (a gift supposedly given to holders of the Melchizedek Priesthood which allows them as leaders to be able to tell that someone might be gay/pedo/lying through their teeth.) If you know that church like Smiley and I, you know it amounts to a bunch of Male Bovine Fecal Matter.

[smileyeagle1021]

Heh not surprising, and not the first time it's happened... given that the Mormon Church relies on the "power of discernment" (a gift supposedly given to holders of the Melchizedek Priesthood which allows them as leaders to be able to tell that someone might be gay/pedo/lying through their teeth.) If you know that church like Smiley and I, you know it amounts to a bunch of Male Bovine Fecal Matter.

you forgot gives them the power to justify anything they do as being 'motivated by the spirit'
... I seriously would not be surprised if that has not been used in a court room in Utah... "well your Honor, I knew that beating up that queer was illegal, but I just felt so motivated by the spirit to do it"

[kiwi]

The reason my Mother removed us from the mormon church was because we had a child molester in our stake and the church hushed it up, councilled the families not to go to the police and then refused to out the man. The last straw was they gave the primary class a lesson on what to do if someone tries to molest you and that was to say "the lord wouldn't like you to do that, please stop."

That was it, I was even chastised because I said I would call him a dirty old man and that was not reverent enough.

She challanged the stake president about it and he brushed her off as paranoid. She has refused to go back ever since. It happens in nearly every church, school, family you name it, sadly no one is safe from these kinds of people.

[SorryIsGoodEnough]

It sickens me how people are jumping on the bandwagon with this.

OMG ALL Mormon scout leaders must be pedophiles!

ALL Catholic priests touch the altar boys!

With that logic, ALL homosexuals are child rapists and should be scorned.

Should I subscribe to that?

Because that's all I've been hearing lately. ALL Mormons are *insert negative comment here* because of this situation.

[RootedPhoenix]

Because that's all I've been hearing lately. ALL Mormons are *insert negative comment here* because of this situation.

Indeed. I just hate hearing about how all Mormons are total sacks of flaming poo because some dipstick within the church decides to use his/her membership/God/whatever as a good reason for being a total sack of flaming poo.

I'm not one of those people, and I don't endorse that crap.

The reason my Mother removed us from the mormon church was because we had a child molester in our stake and the church hushed it up, councilled the families not to go to the police and then refused to out the man. The last straw was they gave the primary class a lesson on what to do if someone tries to molest you and that was to say "the lord wouldn't like you to do that, please stop."

That was it, I was even chastised because I said I would call him a dirty old man and that was not reverent enough.

What the heck were they smoking? That's not right at all.

I'd have kicked that guy in the crotch. Forget being reverent, I'm protecting myself from a predator, and I don't care what some whiny idiot thinks. At that point you're way beyond reasoning (or "please stop, that's not nice"), and you do what it takes to make them stop right then.

She challanged the stake president about it and he brushed her off as paranoid.

Then that was wrong, and he shouldn't have been doing it.

These things continue because people don't want to be the ones involved in complicated things. They want to hope that someone else will be the one to stand up and stop them.

[bunnyboy]

Aaaaaaaaaaand it wasn't until the whole pedophile priest scandal in the Catholic Church that the Mormon one started to evencomment on it.... along the lines of it doesn't happen in our church.

And yes, these sorts of things are really what made me realize it's all a bunch of crap, if the spirit of god can be so blind as to not realize the danger of molesters in their midst, then you gotta wonder....

[SorryIsGoodEnough]

If the whole idea is that Satan wanted to take away free will and Jesus gave the gift of free will, God protecting everyone from the agency and actions of others would just be giving Satan what he wanted.

God is Republican. Hands off government.


I'm also atheist. I just...the Mormon church treated me SO well when I was struggling with my sexuality, and through my poverty. Even now, as an inactive, bisexual single mother they are treating me beautifully. Very Christian, very welcoming, very kind.

But then again, I never side with the victims in this kind of situation. I believe in innocent until proven guilty. And since they want MONEY because the statute of limitations is up...they're just greedy. Money won't solve their problems. Money won't resolve their trauma. Greedy.

[smileyeagle1021]

It sickens me how people are jumping on the bandwagon with this.

OMG ALL Mormon scout leaders must be pedophiles!

ALL Catholic priests touch the altar boys!

With that logic, ALL homosexuals are child rapists and should be scorned.

Should I subscribe to that?

Because that's all I've been hearing lately. ALL Mormons are *insert negative comment here* because of this situation.

You are right, it is wrong to label all mormons as *insert negative comment of choice* because of this, just as it is wrong to say that all catholic priests touch altar boys or all homosexuals are child rapists (though statistically, a child is MUCH MUCH more likely to be raped by a heterosexual, that is a different post). It is however entirely fair to criticize ALL levels of the leadership within the churches for not doing a better job of preventing it. It is their responsibility as the shepherds of their flock to protect their membership... I know that no one is perfect, mistakes will happen, but having a protection plan of "the Lord doesn't like it" is naive at best.

[blas87]

Add me into the sick and tired of all the bashing of people of certain religious groups.

I'd hate to think of what would happen if the Christians here started bashing atheists and non-believers.

[smileyeagle1021]

I'd hate to think of what would happen if the Christians here started bashing atheists and non-believers.

sadly then it would be just like real life. Atheists, non believers, Muslims, (insert non Christian religion here), and even people in the "wrong" sect of Christianity see that every single day of their lives. It is no secret in Utah that good Mormon parents will NOT allow their children to play with non-Mormon kids, Christian judges will allow the "gay panic" defense in court rooms, there were "good' christians who would cancel their reservations at the hotel I worked at when they found out the owner is Muslim. Of course not all Christians are like that, but it is as they say, you reap what you sow. I can fully understand the hatred of Christianity, considering the Bible calls for my death I'm no fan of the church, so while I disagree with the premise of bashing all people of faith because of the actions of the few, there is no way in hell that I will come to the defense of the church.

[IDrinkaRum]

I am a Catholic. Not a very devout Catholic, but one nonetheless. Thereby making me a Christian.

I put this up here not only because the people are suing the Mormon Chruch but also the Boy Scouts for not helping them when they were younger.

[bunnyboy]

I'm with Smiley here, I'm OK with the people, since I've had friends who were wiccan, neopagan, new age, syncretic general eastern religion, searching, Irish Catholic and Mormon, it's just the institutions I have a problem with, in much the same way as I'll defend to the death the right for my mother to be a Scientologist, I would still protest the general ugliness of most of their leadership. I'll have a friend who follows Anton LaVey's teachings, but you wouldn't catch me dead in a Church of Satan Trapezoid that didn't break off when LaVey started to go downhill.

I'm not saying the Mormons are scum who need to be punished for the few, but I will say it doesn't surprise me that the leadership has a hands off approach, felt the same about Catholicism a few years back, was looking into it (hell was looking at it to become a Franciscan) but decided that any religion that didn't go THIS IS BAD to reports of abuse by some of the people the flock would me most trusting of, just left me going, I like you St. Francis, but this isn't your church anymore, nor would i want to be in it.

The church members can be good people, but I've seen that centralized leadership tends to make even the best of churches open to abuse.


And thank you IDR, I was really saying I wasn't surprised at the failure of many to do so back then, but also that a religion with a strong central figure that ultimately has no real control outside of edicts handed down, sometimes hundreds of thousands of miles away, tends towards having problems like this.

That and we've had quite a few of these towards the Mormon church up in my neck of the woods the past decade, not just scoutmasters but Bishops and IIRC a Primary worker as well all were just quietly shuffled around rather than reported to the authorities, of course it doesn't hurt that the Scouts tried to do something about it, but rather than background check from now on, just expect another we don't allow teh gay here from them. *facepalm*

[Boozy]

sadly then it would be just like real life. Atheists, non believers, Muslims, (insert non Christian religion here), and even people in the "wrong" sect of Christianity see that every single day of their lives.

I think that's why some vehement atheists behave like assholes to Christians on teh internets. This is their only refuge, and they won't let it go without a vicious fight.

Sometimes I forget, living in Canada, just how hard it is to be non-Christian in many areas of the US.

[BlaqueKatt]

I put this up here not only because the people are suing the Mormon Chruch but also the Boy Scouts for not helping them when they were younger.

Bwah? the Mormon Church Owns the boy scouts-they are not seperate.....

and I find this part quite interesting....

In the suit filed in San Francisco Superior Court, three brothers claim the church ignored their complaints about being molested by their Silicon Valley Boy Scout and Mormon youth leader in the 1970s and 1980s.
<mr snippy was here>

The plaintiffs, identified only as John Does, claim they were molested hundreds of times by 65-year-old William Eugene Knox, who married their mother while the abuse was taking place in Sunnyvale, Calif.


So they told the church only....not anyone else, not their mother who went on to marry their abuser.....hmmmm sounds a bit fishy to me....