Opinions on abortion

[Seshat]

I wrote up this nifty little ranty thing in the thread about anti-abortionists attacking a planned parenthood clinic. Then I realised it was a complete thread derail. So I moved it to here.



I'm for abortion being available, because I know how traumatic I, personally, would find being pregnant and having no option other than enduring the pregnancy and birth.

There is no contraception available to me which is infallible. (I've tried to get doctors to sterilise me, but always get the rather patronising 'you might change your mind!')

In my ideal world, there would be infallible, perfectly reversible, perfectly safe contraception available to all. It would be specifically offered to children's parents when the child hits puberty, and (if refused then) again offered when the child becomes adult. People would reverse it when they wanted children, and get it again after the conception (male) or birth (female) of their desired children.

Abortion, in this fantasy world, would then become limited to those who refused the contraception, those who were raped during their brief fertile period, those who had medical need for it, and those who changed their minds after conception. Two of those groups (the raped and those with medical need) are the exceptions almost all anti-abortionists seem to find acceptable. The other two voluntarily took on the pregnancy or risk of pregnancy, and I'm personally undecided about where the balance of 'rights' is between the woman and the child when the woman chose to become pregnant/chose to risk pregnancy.

Unfortunately, that gleeful day when safe, effective, inexpensive, totally reversible contraception is universally available is not here yet. Until that day, there will be women who, despite trying to avoid it, will become pregnant. There will be men who try to guard against getting their lovers pregnant, and fail.

Pregnancy is a risky activity. We don't force people to bungee jump, or to work in construction, or to climb mountains. I see pregnancy as belonging in that sort of category - things we do that risk permanent damage to our bodies. If it's voluntary, fine. If it's not, don't force people to do it.

[Amethyst Hunter]

My opinion on it is much the same as yours, Seshat. I hope and pray that I (or someone I care about) will *never* find myself/themselves in that kind of position where we'd have to make a decision. Speaking only for myself, I suspect that I would be the type to do something drastic to escape that feeling of being trapped. It's one of the reasons I'm celibate by choice. A few minutes' worth of pleasure isn't worth winding up in an infinitely dire situation, and I'm under no illusions that I'd be one of the lucky few that could get away with anything, not with my luck.

I have a relative who had sex for the first time at age 16. This relative was one of the 'good' 'Christian' kids. Relative came down with a particularly persistent cold one time and was afraid they'd caught something REALLY nasty. (I don't know if said person used any form of protection or not) Testing proved that they were lucky, they *didn't* have anything. Talk about dodging bullets!

In case of a worst-case scenario (rape) or in the (unlikely) event I found somebody I wanted to be with, I want to get sterilized, but 1) I don't have the money/insurance to do it, and 2) even at 31 I'm sure I'll run into the condescending BS that a lot of people have had to deal with in their similar quests.

What drives me nuts over the deal with the city facing the PP controversy is that so many people have been suckered into believing the worst by the liars spreading it. Worse, I've just discovered that this anti-choice group spearheading the effort is ALLIED with KNOWN *domestic terrorists* (Operation Save America/Operation Rescue, which HAS and is documented as having committed violence against similar clinics in the past). These are the kind of people that give both religion and pro-life a bad, bad reputation, and I honestly am afraid for the region because I DON'T trust that one loose nut (or more) that you know is out there to not start some shit somewhere along the line.

I firmly believe the ONLY way to reduce the abortion rate is 1) education, education, education!, 2) teach more men to respect women and teach more women to respect themselves (i.e., dressing up slutty like Britney Spears *is not* "empowerment"), and 3) to make contraception and sterilization (the latter for those who really want it) more widely available and easier to access. Bonus 4) reduce the poverty level, as a good deal of abortions come from women too financially-strapped to take on another child and the expenses associated therein.

[Seshat]

I don't know what the extremist type of anti-abortionist is really thinking, but it certainly looks (from over here near the other end of the spectrum) like their primary interest is in punishing any woman who dares to show any hint of sexuality.


That said, I'd be interested (genuinely) in hearing from the middle-of-the-road anti-abortionists. I assume the reason the sensible type of anti-abortionist is against abortion is the rights of the embryo/foetus (depending on the point at which the abortion occurs). But assuming leaves one looking ridiculous. So - anyone want to enlighten me?

[Greenday]

Seshat, your question is easy to answer. I know many people who are against abortion, but none that go out and protest like idiots. The most used response? "My religion says it's wrong." Hell, I get that response for most stuff. Abortion, stem cell research, gay marriage. Can we say, brainwashed?

[Primer]

In case of a worst-case scenario (rape) or in the (unlikely) event I found somebody I wanted to be with, I want to get sterilized, but 1) I don't have the money/insurance to do it, and 2) even at 31 I'm sure I'll run into the condescending BS that a lot of people have had to deal with in their similar quests.

I knew from a very early age that I did not want children. I started badgering my doctors when I was 16 to get sterilized (even before I became sexually active). I finally convinced them at the age of 31.

I still have not been able to convince any of them into a hysterectomy, though. Hell, if the factory has been shut down, why not bulldoze it? At least I can look forward to being done with it all within the next 5 years or so, according to my mother's history.

And yes, I am pro-choice, until the fetus is viable outside the womb without extraordinary measures.

[CancelMyService]

It just bothers me that the people who oppose abortion from the "every fetus deserves a chance" standpoint are almost always the ones who oppose any type of social assistance as a handout or worse the dreaded "entitlement" slur. Not to mention they also seem as a whole to be in favor of things like war and the death penalty.

If more anti-abortion types were pro-health care and/or education, I'd be more open to their viewpoints. As it is, it just gives the apperance that they only care about their precious fetii until birth, then the hell with them and the mothers.

[TNT]

If more anti-abortion types were pro-health care and/or education, I'd be more open to their viewpoints. As it is, it just gives the apperance that they only care about their precious fetii until birth, then the hell with them and the mothers.

I'm anti-abortion, anti-death penalty, mostly anti-war... and not religious at all.

Now what?

[CancelMyService]

I just hope you realize you're one of the few with that certain set of views. It is a bit refreshing to see someone consistent in their views (even if I don't agree with them) instead of being what I call "pro life until birth".

I can at least respect consistency, when I see someone who's all over the map I just want to stare like a confused puppy.

[Seshat]

I'm anti-abortion, anti-death penalty, mostly anti-war... and not religious at all.

Now what?

Would you care to explain the reasoning behind being anti-abortion? I'd just like to understand the 'other side' - or at least that part of it which has reasons other than 'my religion says so'.

[powerboy]

I am against it, unless it is to save the woman life. If they had been raped, or if they just don't want the child, then they could atleast give it up for adoption. There are other people, who want a child but cannot have one.

[CancelMyService]

I am against it, unless it is to save the woman life. If they had been raped, or if they just don't want the child, then they could atleast give it up for adoption. There are other people, who want a child but cannot have one.

This is a reasonable position, but in order for it to work better the adoption system in the US needs to be fixed badly. There's a reason people end up going to third world countries to adopt, and it's not for lack of available children in the US. I've seen too many horror stories of families adopting and having the kids for months/years before the heretofore absentee parent appears to take the child back, causing untold amounts of trauma for all involved.

[squall]

I understand the need for abortion to exist. There is no reason a raped woman should be forced to carry a child she did not ask for. It is not very feasible that a really young mother in her early teens would be able to take care of a child properly without parental help. There are certain situations where the parents would be hazards to their children. Stupid people will always breed, not always on purpose. If gestation of a child is hazardous to the mother, then obviously the child must be aborted.

Would I personally use abortion as my choice? Probably not.

[Boozy]

I understand the need for abortion to exist. There is no reason a raped woman should be forced to carry a child she did not ask for.

Exactly. I can't believe there are those that would force a raped woman to extend the horror of her experience for a full nine months, thereby reinforcing the idea that she has no control over her body whatsoever. That argument infuriates me. A woman is not a bloody incubator.

[Greenday]

Exactly. I can't believe there are those that would force a raped woman to extend the horror of her experience for a full nine months, thereby reinforcing the idea that she has no control over her body whatsoever. That argument infuriates me. A woman is not a bloody incubator.

Nine months? How about a constant reminder for the rest of her life? One that she sure as hell can't ignore.

[Boozy]

On the same lines as the "women as mere incubators" thing, check out this link:

http://www.azcentral.com/community/m...fetus0609.html

Arizona has apparently determined that a woman is worth about 80% the value of her 8 week-old fetus.

Is this where the campaign for fetal rights leads?