Couple arrested for refusing to pay 18% tip

[Anthony K. S.]

if you did attempt to comp them the food, and they refused and decided to pay for everything, but the tip then if I was the manager I would have excepted that

I also presume, Mr. Slugger, that if you were the manager, you wouldn't have called the police, had the customers arrested, and wound up getting caught in a firestorm of bad publicity and a backlash from the public, all over a lousy $16.

You are correct. It would be very foolish not to accept the customers' offer of paying the bill but not the tip . . . But, look, the bar management hasn't exactly shown themselves to have great business sense here.

As I've stated earlier, I firmly believe that the customers were wrong to refuse to pay a tip that they agreed to pay when they sat down to eat . . . But, regardless, it was unbelievably short-sighted and stupid of the restaurant to have them arrested for it. The negative publicity they get for this will almost certainly wind up costing them more than the $16.

That being the case . . . I don't know if I'd put it past them to be dumb enough to refuse the customers' offer of paying the bill but not the tip after the manager offered to comp the food . . .

Does anyone know how prominent the notice that tipping was mandatory was? I have been to places where it is almost hidden and would come as a shock to most people.

I haven't seen any news articles that mentioned how prominent the notice of the tip was, but . . .

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?se...cal&id=7128490

So, when the tab came, the group paid for everything else, but refused to pay the $16.35 gratuity tacked on to the check. That amount, they said, was a 22% tip, not the 18% charged to large parties.

"That was sort of the breaking point where this is ridiculous. We shouldn't have to pay for this poor service and we shouldn't have to pay this extra money," said Wagner.

None of the news articles that I've seen have indicated that the customers were upset about the tip being added without their knowledge, or being surprised by it on the check.

It seems to me that if they really hadn't known about it beforehand, then that would have been a major point of complaint, and, therefore, something that the news articles would have been sure to mention.

They didn't.

At any rate, had they been surprised by an unexpected automatic gratuity, then they certainly should have been more angered by the existence of it at all than they were about it being larger than the stated 18%.

This tells me that the customers did, in fact, know about the 18% automatic gratuity.

Of course, this all leads directly into another point . . . The customers have a perfectly valid complaint about the fact that the automatic gratuity was 22% instead of the stated 18%.

Unless the restaurant can provide an explanation for the difference, the customers are perfectly right in this regard . . . But, as I see it, that would only justify reducing the charge to 18% (to about $13 instead of $16), rather than removing it altogether.

I still believe that the customers were obligated to pay for it. I also believe that the restaurant handled this whole situation about as badly as they possibly could have . . .

[linguist]

I still believe that the customers were obligated to pay for it. I also believe that the restaurant handled this whole situation about as badly as they possibly could have . . .

my black's law dictionary defines gratuity as the noun form of the adjective gratuitous, which is defined as something done without obligation. if the bar wants to call it a service fee, fine. but as long as they refer to it as a gratuity, there is an implication of no obligation to pay.

[BlaqueKatt]

my black's law dictionary defines gratuity as the noun form of the adjective gratuitous, which is defined as something done without obligation. if the bar wants to call it a service fee, fine. but as long as they refer to it as a gratuity, there is an implication of no obligation to pay.

The American Heritage dictionary disagrees with you....

gra·tu·i·ty
A favor or gift, usually in the form of money, given in return for service.

[Mr Slugger]

I also presume, Mr. Slugger, that if you were the manager, you wouldn't have called the police, had the customers arrested, and wound up getting caught in a firestorm of bad publicity and a backlash from the public, all over a lousy $16.

Exactly the $16 isn't worth it.

[jackfaire]

Curious though why would you "offer" to comp the meal? If you really mean to do it typically you would just comp the meal and tell them you were going to do it. After all very few would then insist on paying you anyway.

[Mr Slugger]

Curious though why would you "offer" to comp the meal? If you really mean to do it typically you would just comp the meal and tell them you were going to do it. After all very few would then insist on paying you anyway.

Well see my thought on the meal comp is. The bartender screwed up and called the cops. When the newspapers and tv crews crews showed up the bar tried to play like they were trying to be nice to them. I doubt the meal was ever really attempted to be comped. The answer from the bar that night was more than likely "we're busy what do you want us to do about it?"

[jackfaire]

I know it was more being sarcastic and pointing out the ridiculousness of them claiming that.

[Mr Slugger]

I know it was more being sarcastic and pointing out the ridiculousness of them claiming that.

We really need sarcasm tags

[lordlundar]

The American Heritage dictionary disagrees with you....

gra·tu·i·ty
A favor or gift, usually in the form of money, given in return for service.

actually, no it doesn't. The bolded part has never meant mandatory.

Personally, the restaurant (and all service places for that manner) should change it to a service fee or in this particular case "large party service fee" and leave the tip/gratuity as a completely optional portion. As far as this specific situation goes, The management's stupidity cost them a heck of a lot more than the "gratuity" when they couldn't explain the 4% increase and having the people arrested after they chose to pay for the food itself.

Mind you, I also think that the same staff should also be treated on par to other employment in terms of pay scale, and the odds of either happening are worse than the lottery.

[Arcade Man D]

I refuse to dine at places that have a mandatory tip. I choose to pay the tip that is my choice not some hidden charge you get to foist off on me because your too cheap to pay them properly.

That will suck if you ever go abroad, because the US is one of the only countries that don't attach a gratuity to the bill.

[jackfaire]

That will suck if you ever go abroad, because the US is one of the only countries that don't attach a gratuity to the bill.

Then I will eat only at grocery stores or starve. If it is a charge fine but do not refer to a mandatory fee as something voluntary.

If I see something wrong I speak up period.

[Slytovhand]

That will suck if you ever go abroad, because the US is one of the only countries that don't attach a gratuity to the bill.

References??

And remember, we're looking at the term 'gratuity', not 'service fee' or similar....

Everything I've found so far completely contradicts your statement....

[Shangri-laschild]

The American Heritage dictionary disagrees with you....

gra·tu·i·ty
A favor or gift, usually in the form of money, given in return for service.

Legal defintions are not always the same as dictionary definitions. When they aren't the legal definition will be spelled out in the law to clarify but just because it's how it descibes in the dictionary doesn't mean it's the same thing in the eyes of the law.

[Tanasi]

Legal defintions are not always the same as dictionary definitions. When they aren't the legal definition will be spelled out in the law to clarify but just because it's how it descibes in the dictionary doesn't mean it's the same thing in the eyes of the law.

That is 100% correct.
According to the IRS a tip/gratuity is monies freely given to the employer/employee regardless of the reason. Charges added to a bill are technically service fees. From a payroll and tax position there is significant difference.
Tips/Gratuities are simple they are added to gross pay after regular and overtime calculated. Service fees on the other hand directly affect the overtime if applicible. All that in turn affects taxes. Also in some cases service fees are also subject to sales tax.
The pub messed up in the wording on the menu, they should have said an 18% service fee will be added to the bill. At that point the patrons wouldn't have a legal arguement because refusual at that point is indeed theft. As something else to think about the couple could also have a law case against false imprisonment/arrest.

[Vagabond]

When it comes to tipping, I'm always terribly confused.
In Asia, well, Japan anway, it's insulting to tip. You are telling them that they need to go back to school to learn how to cook/waiter/host better and you are offering them money to go do that.
In UK, tipping was acceptable, but generally not mandatory or expected.
In the US, tipping is expected, but then the % varies. I've been told anywhere from 10, 15, 20% of the bill/tab/cheque is the customary amount.
In Germany, tipping is generally not done as well, you usually just round the bill off to the nearest round Euro.