Guns In Public

[blas87]

Based off of the thread in Sightings currently on CS....

Now, in that thread, it was an officer of the law who was refusing to put away his gun while he was at the doctor's office.

I come from a state without conceal and carry, and I've always wanted to know if people from states that do have it, do people really take their guns everywhere they go, like literally, everywhere?

Do you think that an officer of teh law should be allowed to refuse to put away his/her weapon while at a place that does not allow weapons (such as a hospital)?

[daleduke17]

Do you think that an officer of teh law should be allowed to refuse to put away his/her weapon while at a place that does not allow weapons (such as a hospital)?

If he is on duty and in uniform, definitely. Off duty (or in plain clothes), if he can prove identification that he is an officer of the law, then definitely as well.

I'd rather see one cop with a sidearm in an ER than ten "Security Officers" without sidearms (and probably no training at all).

[blas87]

I don't like the idea of rent-a-cops with guns or even tasers.

A taser gun took down my boyfriend and made him pee his pants....if that's what it does to a body builder, I wonder what it does to a smaller girl.

[jackfaire]

Recently I was seeing a girl who has a concealed weapons permit and yes as long as she is in this state she carries her gun everywhere.

[joe hx]

do people really take their guns everywhere they go, like literally, everywhere?

Yes they do. Back when I worked at the auto shop, one of the techs always had his gun on him.

[IDrinkaRum]

The state of Virginia has (had?) a law that states you don't need a permit to carry a gun as long as the gun is in plain sight.

This was a little known law and it made the headlines a few years ago, when there was an article about it in the local newspapers.

Some men went into a restaurant and one of them had a gun in plain sight. There was some talk with management, and I think police were called, but because of the law, there was nothing anyone could do about.

It sparked a great big debate over whether or not this is such a good idea, etc., etc.

As for me. I don't care. If you feel safer with a gun, either out in the open or concealed while you carry, more power to you.

As long as you know how to fire the darn thing, that's all I ask.

[KitterCat]

This is one of my hot topic, so just to warn you its long.

I come from a state without conceal and carry, and I've always wanted to know if people from states that do have it, do people really take their guns everywhere they go, like literally, everywhere?

I’ve found that people get carry laws confused. There’s concealed and open. You may still live in a state that allows open sited carry. Its highly doubtful, but possible. Pretty much if a person can see it, you can carry the weapon. So having a gun on your hip, not a problem so long as there isn’t a coat covering it. Having a gun in your pocket, you’ve got a problem unless you’ve got the paperwork for a concealed carry.

Having lived in West Virginia I’ve come across both. In that state anyone can open carry. Getting a concealed carry permit is pretty easy. Fill out a form of about 2-3 pages, pass the background check, take a safety course and pay a $75 tax. Before we moved to Maryland, Mr.KitterCat had a CC permit along with a few friends. I never bothered to get a CC because sharp pointy things have always been more up my line than things that go boom. None of us were/are gun toting nut jobs waiting to blow something up. Most carried for self protection against criminals or keeping 2nd amendment rights in use. None of us, myself included, has ever had to draw except at a firing range.

Because it is still part of the culture there, you don’t come across that many people who freak out. Crime is also down. Criminals don’t want to rob you if they think your armed. I cant tell you the amount of times I’d hear the same story for 3 months of the local gas station getting robbed, and the robbers peacefully leaving afterwards. Coming just out of MD, close to Baltimore, I was use to hearing about weekly robberies, shootings, and rapes, possibly not in that order. Take a guess which state doesn’t allow even open carry. The first one doesn’t count..

Do you think that an officer of teh law should be allowed to refuse to put away his/her weapon while at a place that does not allow weapons (such as a hospital)?

Very simply, you cant say “we want the police to protect us, they have to be armed to fight crimes, but no one else can carry.” and then say on the other hand “I’m scared of guns. I don’t want them around ME.” If we’re going to give only a small amount of people the ability to carry firearms then they have to be able to carry them were ever they go, not every where except when someone doesn’t feel “comfortable”. I hate to sound malicious, but grow a thicker skin.

In places were its not allowed for an officer to carry, such as a federal/state building they have their own security set up. Their own security carries their own firearms in those cases. I’ve yet to go through a military base where the check in personal did not have a rifle, I’ve yet to come across a judicial building where the screening technician was not also an officer with a firearm. I’ve yet to be in a school with an officer working security who was not carrying a firearm.

In the case of a hospital, a lot of them hire in security who are off duty cops, ex military, retired cops (who can carry where they wish as well) or specially trained to use firearms. Or their security is trained to call the police if force is needed. I don’t see how people can cringe at the mere sight of a gun and then demand that these people protect them when chaos decides to take a look at their world.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

From what I'm told, Virginia open carry specifically says that not only the entire weapon, but any one part of the weapon being exposed ('clearly visible') counts as open carry. This means that inside waistband holsters can be used so long as the grip is not concealed by a coat etc.

I personally plan on getting my CC license and using a paddle holster. Only places I wouldn't take it would be federal buildings that restrict weapons (duh) and those bullshit 'gun-free' school zones, if only because I'd get nailed good if discovered (not that that's too likely.)

Also,

Very simply, you cant say “we want the police to protect us, they have to be armed to fight crimes, but no one else can carry.” and then say on the other hand “I’m scared of guns. I don’t want them around ME.” If we’re going to give only a small amount of people the ability to carry firearms then they have to be able to carry them were ever they go, not every where except when someone doesn’t feel “comfortable”. I hate to sound malicious, but grow a thicker skin.

Quite simply, yes. You get 7 internets.

[jackfaire]

As long as you know how to fire the darn thing, that's all I ask.

That is why in my state the permits are a good thing because to qualify your required to actually learn about the gun you wish to carry not just ooooo look at my pretty new toy.

[AdminAssistant]

My mother has a CC license, and yes, she carries that damn thing everywhere. No matter how much I've begged and pleaded for her to cleanse the house of guns....oh no. My father is an alcoholic and has threatened family members and himself with a gun before. So, sorry, I don't like guns, they terrify me now and I will not grow a "thicker skin" about it. But since both of them cling so fast to their precious weapons, I'm afraid one night they really will kill themselves/each other.

Sorry, sensitive subject. But yes, people do carry around the damn things, as if you really really need a firearm to go to Wal*Mart or the mall.

[BlaqueKatt]

My father is an alcoholic and has threatened family members and himself with a gun before. So, sorry, I don't like guns, they terrify me now and I will not grow a "thicker skin" about it.

Do the police terrify you, if not why not-they have guns or is it not guns that terrify you but your father-and rather than admit your fear of him you push it onto an inanimate object?

Threat assessment rests on two critical principles: first that all threats and all threateners are not equal; second, that most threateners are unlikely to carry out their threat. However, all threats must be taken seriously and evaluated.

A threat may be a warning signal, a reaction to fear of punishment or some other anxiety, or a demand for attention. It may be intended to taunt; to intimidate; to assert power or control; to punish; to manipulate or coerce; to frighten; to terrorize; to compel someone to do something; to strike back for an injury, injustice or slight; to disrupt someone's or some institution's life; to test authority, or to protect oneself.

Though emotionally charged threats can tell the assessor something about the temperament of the threatener, they are not a measure of danger. They may sound frightening, but no correlation has been established between the emotional intensity in a threat and the risk that it will be carried out.

Low Level of Threat:

A threat which poses a minimal risk to the victim and public safety.

* Threat is vague and indirect.
* Information contained within the threat is inconsistent, implausible or lacks detail.
* Threat lacks realism.
* Content of the threat suggests person is unlikely to carry it out.
Medium Level of Threat:

A threat which could be carried out, although it may not appear entirely realistic.

* Threat is more direct and more concrete than a low level threat.
* Wording in the threat suggests that the threatener has given some thought to how the act will be carried out.
* There may be a general indication of a possible place and time (though these signs still fall well short of a detailed plan).
* There is no strong indication that the threatener has taken preparatory steps, although there may be some veiled reference or ambiguous or inconclusive evidence pointing to that possibility -- an allusion to a book or movie that shows the planning of a violent act or a vague, general statement about the availability of weapons.
* There may be a specific statement seeking to convey that the threat is not empty such as: "I'm serious!" or "I really mean this!".

High Level of Threat:

A threat that appears to pose an imminent and serious danger to the safety of others:

* Threat is direct, specific and plausible.
* Threat suggests concrete steps have been taken toward carrying it out, for example, statements indicating that the threatener has acquired or practiced with a weapon or has had the victim under surveillance.

Sorry, sensitive subject. But yes, people do carry around the damn things, as if you really really need a firearm to go to Wal*Mart or the mall.

feel free to ask Suzanna Hupp about that....

or these survivors...
In the small town of Winnemucca Nevada a man bent on performing a mass
shooting at a bar was stopped by an armed CCW permit holder who
happened to be in the right place at the right time. The alleged mass
murderer had already killed two victims & had injured two others with
gunshot wounds, but after reloading to resume his shooting spree he
was shot & killed by an armed CCW permit holder who was also at the
bar.

here in my fair city of about 223,389 people in the past 7 days we've had 5 assaults(including sexual assault), 9 burglaries, 12 strong arm robberies-for all of last year stats are 10 murders, 50 forcible rapes, 368 robberies(my husband is included in that statistic-thank you), and 463 aggravated assaults.

I would really like to know how you would feel about guns if you had 6 years of martial arts training like my husband-and had two men rob you of your wallet and cell phone(when he took it out to call 911)-on a busy street at around 6pm-my husband was their fifth victim in a row-the others had been severely beaten and dragged to a side street unconscious-NO ONE stopped to help or call the police, until my husband ran in front of a car with the two men chasing him(one had just struck him), they would've done the same to my husband. If one of the victims had had a firearm, it would've saved some suffering-they were never caught-my husband still has mild PTSD from it and his severe depression stems from it. He knew if I had been with him he couldn't have protected me, and god knows what would've happened.

I have two stalkers, both know where I live, and just four blocks from me a girl called 911 while being stabbed to death and the police didn't respond-tell me I don't need my gun.

[AdminAssistant]

Do the police terrify you, if not why not-they have guns or is it not guns that terrify you but your father-and rather than admit your fear of him you push it onto an inanimate object?

My issues with my father are personal, and in retrospect I shouldn't have brought them on here. To summarize, it's not fear of him for myself, but for him and my mom. He truly is a good man, but depression, alcohol, and psychiatric meds have just about ruined him.

Police have extensive training in how to fire guns and how to handle crisis situations. Many individuals do not, and it is my personal opinion that for many of these people, a gun does more harm than good. What could be a simple robbery could turn into a deadly situation. I lived in a terrible neighborhood in KC, crime was a constant, and I still lean on the side of gun control.

However, I don't think this is something we can agree on, nor is it the point of this thread, so I will be walking away.

[muses_nightmare]

Okay, speaking as someone who has had limited experience with guns, and who lives in Canada, I don't believe that the general public should just be allowed to carry a weapon whereever they please. Police officers? Sure, I'm also all for them carrying tasers (a contoversial stance here in BC apparently). They're trained with them, most of the time the general public isn't. Sure some places require you to know how to use it before issuing liscenses, but not all places are like that.

I'm not afraid of guns, but I think they should be more strictly controlled.

[Tanasi]

Blas I don't know about your AO but in mine LEOs are on the clock 24/7 and that includes vacation so they do not have to conceal their sidearms.
In TN our carry permits are for either concealed or open carry. According to state law every place that does not allow must post at all entrances that carry is not allowed and the sign must be of a certain size and the specific wording.
I have a carry permit and I carry. I carry every where I go unless the place is posted no carry. If so posted I usually don't go there unless they have security beyond cameras. I'm not parinoid and I try to stay away from the bad parts of town but you never know when the bugger man is going to pop up.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Many people vastly, and I mean vastly over-estimate the amount of required training given to a LEO, in weapons use and crisis management. They may secure additional training and may spend extra time on the range, but it's not at all required.

Add to this that very high-quality weapons handling, crisis management, and general self-defense training is available to the public at large, often for very low price (without effecting quality) especially from the NRA (about as legit as it gets, my friends)

Furthermore, the absence of a firearm doesn't guarantee a non-violent outcome any more than it's presence guarantees the opposite. In the grand majority of CCW, open carry or home/business defense incidents, would-be attackers (even similarly armed ones) fled rather than face an armed victim. The majority of cases don't even require the weapon to be drawn, merely reveals. Fewer still required shots to be fired and fewer still required the death of the attacker.

Also, I'd like to point out that the GRAND majority of CCW holders and practitioners are well trained through their own initiative as well as more than satisfactorily proficient.

There's a big misconception about the standard CCW, in that anti'gunners think of them as random block-heads who just decided one day to get the license and start carrying... this is very far from the truth indeed.

I really understand where you're coming from, I do. As part of my logic process I make sure I understand where the other side is coming from... I feel, however that I'm not getting the same effort in return.

It's perfectly understandable that you would be afraid of guns and people who have them. Especially since you have very little experience with either. But since you don't, what other factors are there, if any, that qualify you as an expert in the downfalls of concealed carry and home defense?

(this being directed at those who disagree with me in general)