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  • "Friendly" parenting

    This blurs the line a bit with LadyBarbossa's recent thread, but a CS thread inspired this. Also, it's growing rather long.

    The thread features a young woman shouting obscenities and demanding that her teacher allow her to ignore the lesson and talk with her friends in class. She's wholly oblivious to the disruption she causes, and isn't concerned for anything but her own amusement. The perfect little EW. And how does the mother respond during all of this?

    "Please stop, dear"
    "I know, dear"
    "It isn't fair, honey"

    And so forth. I've seen this in other places, most notably here. That one features a mother who buys her five kids a single Nintendo DS. Which works about as well as you'd expect. Now yes, she lays down some ground rules about it's use, but they're not enforced, at least not in any meaningful way. How does she respond? By asking the kids nicely and hiding the DS in her desk. Then go and get it out and play it anyway. So she hides it again. And they find it again.

    Seriously? You let your kids blatantly ignore their punishment and dig around in your personal items in the process, and your entire response is "well don't do it this time?" And she wonders why they misbehave so badly.

    The worst, though, I lost the link for. I think it may have been ad advice column, but the mother complained that her son would ignore everything she said and just play XBox all day. When someone told her she should take the XBox away, she responded with "I can't do that! He wouldn't like me then, and our friendship is important to me!"

    Yeah, and that's why he isn't going to listen. He has zero respect for you. And that's basically the connecting thread through all of these. A parent who's so worried about maintaining a "good relationship" with their kid that they do jack to actually be an authority figure. Which means the kid will do whatever they want. That's an observation my manager made when she moved me up to FES - "You're not going to make any friends in this position."

    There's a reason for that. Respect is like a fund - you can earn it and spend it, and getting someone to do something for you can rely on it. Let's put it this way: If the person considers their personal interests more important than the action, they aren't going to do it. If it's more important, they will (or if the two coincide). Respect tilts the equation in your favor. Things like "just because you're a friend/my dad/the Boss" is just saying that respect (for the friendship/family/employment) was the deciding factor.

    And in all of the cases above, there was no respect to tip the scales. By letting the kids do whatever they wanted, the parent was relying entirely on it being in their kid's own interests to obey. And when that doesn't work and you've never built up a basis for respect, you have nothing to fall back on and these EW moments are the result.

    ...And I could have made that clearer and more compact, but I'm writing this way too early in the morning and lost half my original thoughts already.
    "The hero is the person who can act mindfully, out of conscience, when others are all conforming, or who can take the moral high road when others are standing by silently, allowing evil deeds to go unchallenged." — Philip Zimbardo
    TUA Games & Fiction // Ponies

  • #2
    These are the same parents who try to "hang out" with their kids. It doesn't work. I have a relationship with my daughter but when I say pick up your toys and put them away she listens and what do you know relationship is still intact.

    Ask the kids who had good parents that showed them discipline and such and 10 to 1 those kids love their parents.

    Parents who want to be their kid's friends need to realize their kids don't want that. Serioulsy why would you want your parents trying to be buddy buddy. Be friends when your kid is an adult and being friends actually means something not when they are 10.

    Rule of thumb if it would be creepy for you to be friends with a random 10 year old then yes it's not a good idea to be friends with your own kid.
    Jack Faire
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    • #3
      When I was a kid, I shared a Megadrive with my two little brothers. One day, we were fighting and yelling over it, and not wanting to share it, when my Dad walked in and said, "Any more of that and I'm taking it downstairs and playing with it myself."

      We didn't listen. He unplugged it, took it downstairs and played on it for an hour before he let us have it back... AFTER we'd all apologised and promised to play nice.

      I'm good friends with my parents now, but jeez, I had so many fights and arguments with them growing up, cuz they refused to let me or my brothers do what we liked all the time, and laid the law down. If Dad said no, he meant no. If Mum threatened something, you can bet anything you like, she'd carry it out. So we respected them.

      That is where the problem is. When parents like the ones the OP cited make threats, they don't follow thru so why should the kids listen to them? They know that their parents will just let them have their own way in the end. And parents like this will sit down after their liddle pwecious ends up in court for stealing or carjacking and say, "What did we do wrong?" -.-
      "Oh wow, I can't believe how stupid I used to be and you still are."

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      • #4
        I am a firm believer in "Parent for 18 years, friend for a lifetime". My parents and grandparents were authority figures to me for 18 years, now I can see them as friends (with my mom, it's still a bit shaky on that).

        I see the friendly parenting too a lot. There is nothing wrong with the parent saying "Please stop that" the first time. If the child continues to do it, then appropriate action should be taken. More often than not, if a child has been disciplined correctly, then it takes only the one "Please stop it" for them to do so.

        While parents should at least listen to their children, I do not believe in democracy parenting. I have seen kids who get to decide their punishments. I cringe every time a parent, whether real or on tv, say "How do you think you should be punished?" NO! YOU are the parent! YOU decide the punishment!
        "It's after Jeopardy, so it is my bed time."- Me when someone made a joke about how "old" I am.

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        • #5
          My parents would ask me what I thought my punishment should be. They would take my suggestion and watch my eyes.


          This would be in cases where they were going to deprive me of something my eyes would go one way I would say something else they would take the thing I looked at and leave what I said.
          Jack Faire
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          • #6
            Jack, now that I can see. However, some parents actually do the punishments the kids say they should have. That pisses me off.
            "It's after Jeopardy, so it is my bed time."- Me when someone made a joke about how "old" I am.

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            • #7
              Firstly, FTR, I'm not a parent, and have no intentions of being one. Children take a lot of responsibility - 24/7, 365, rest of life. They aren't toys! Being a parent usually means quite a change of attitude, and sometimes personality.

              Secondly, my best mate wanted me to be the Godparent to his kids, but his wife vetoed that idea due to the above. Personally, I think it's my attitude above that would make me a better parent than most...

              But, I have very little respect for my 'parents'. I Use that in quotes, because it was more I was born into a family, rather than I was 'raised'. I wasn't 'parented', I was just another mouth to feed, another body to clothe.

              I don't have a problem with be-friending one's children - but as has been pointed out, there still needs to be a respect given - both ways. Which means being honest with your child, and also following through - on both promises and punishments. There needs to be fairness, and also understanding - and to get those, you need to listen to your child. And to get your child to talk, there must be some form of trust - as in friendship - and you must listen.


              Very easy to say in a post, but then - that's why I don't have kids!
              ZOE: Preacher, don't the Bible got some pretty specific things to say about killing?

              SHEPHERD BOOK: Quite specific. It is, however, Somewhat fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Slytovhand View Post
                Firstly, FTR, I'm not a parent, and have no intentions of being one.
                That probably had more to do with her qualms. No offense but I would be hesitant to make a person who doesn't want kids the person that would get my kid should I pass. (commonly that is part of the idea behind God parents.)
                Jack Faire
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                • #9
                  I say please and thank you to my kid because I am modeling behavior I demand of her. This is how polite people speak to each other. I respect my child as a person, and I demand she respect us as her parents.

                  However, when I say "please," it is not a request, I assure you. I don't play around, I expect to be obeyed and I don't expect to have to do a lot of negotiation.

                  If I raise an eyebrow, that usually ends it.

                  I hear "You're not my best friend" a lot. Apparently, that is a devastating pronouncment to the four year old set. Usually, I just say "you're right. I'm not your best friend. I'm your mother."

                  Kids don't want another friend nor do they need one. They need someone who is strong and reliable for them. Which I am.

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                  • #10
                    All hail RK!

                    That's what I want to do with my kids. Even though I do say "please", it is an order, not a request.
                    "It's after Jeopardy, so it is my bed time."- Me when someone made a joke about how "old" I am.

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                    • #11
                      RK, you sound a lot like my parents were when I was growing up.

                      When I was growing up, my parents were my parents. They were cool parents, don't get wrong, but they were parents.

                      After the growing up is done, you can focus on being friends with your parents. It's kind of a nice right of passage if you ask me. I still look to my Dad for advice, even as an adult. It's kind of cool reaching that point in life where it is advice or a request, and no longer an order.

                      But I don't think we'd be as close as we are *now* if he hadn't been there to set me straight growing up. It wasn't easy, I'm sure (I know it wasn't always easy for me!). We went through a period where we fought a lot...and probably about a year in which we rarely spoke to one another. But after all that, you get to a point with your folks where you develop something deeper than respect and friendship.

                      Anyway...You can't be your kid's friend. Not when they need to listen to you. Respect has to be gotten first. The relationship has to go deeper than being your kid's "best bud." Not to mention that the kids need their space, anyway. They need to be with other kids and develop normal friendships, etc. etc.

                      I ramble. It's late.
                      "Children are our future" -LaceNeilSinger
                      "And that future is fucked...with a capital F" -AmethystHunter

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                      • #12
                        Definitely agree with McDreidel09 and RK and DesignFox.

                        My parents were my parents growing up. They were disciplinarians and my brothers and I were expected to listen to them and obey them or we were forced to deal with the consequences. Now at 24, my mom is one of my best friends.

                        My fiance's aunt and uncle are raising their children to be their friends. The two girls don't see their parents as authority figures and never listen to them. The older one has dropped out of community college classes three times, switching concentrations every time then leaving because it's "too hard". And the younger one is following in her footsteps.

                        I plan on parenting my children. I'd like for them to like me, but I know I'll get a screaming tween at some point stomping his or her feet and yelling, "YOU'RE THE WORST MOM EVER!" I'm sure it'll hurt and I may cry a little myself, but at least I'll know I'm doing something right.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Custard Chick View Post
                          point stomping his or her feet and yelling, "YOU'RE THE WORST MOM EVER!" I'm sure it'll hurt and I may cry a little myself, but at least I'll know I'm doing something right.
                          Just remember when your in public your kid is throwing a temper tantrum and accuses you of embarrasing them point out they are embarrasing themselves. Shuts em right up.
                          Jack Faire
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                          • #14
                            Quote from a MTG card (yes, I'm a geek and still play)
                            "Friends teach you what you WANT to know,
                            Enemies teach you what you NEED to know."

                            I'm not advocating being an enemy towards children, but teaching them what they'll NEED to know and to not always be a friend that only teaches them what they'll want to know.
                            But then... I was raised by a single mother, whom my aunts and uncles used to call 'drill sergeant'. I think my mom still has a 2x4 around with my name on it.

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                            • #15
                              I plan on parenting my children. I'd like for them to like me, but I know I'll get a screaming tween at some point stomping his or her feet and yelling, "YOU'RE THE WORST MOM EVER!" I'm sure it'll hurt and I may cry a little myself, but at least I'll know I'm doing something right.
                              This. I've always thought hearing the ever popular "I HATE YOU!! YOU'RE RUINING MY LIFE!!!" would mean that I had 'arrived' as a parent.

                              I agree that it will hurt, and the little woman in my head will probably crumble to the ground and snap into the fetal position...and start sucking her thumb. But on the outside? On the outside I want to have the strength to say "Good...then I've done my job."

                              My mother was my 'friend'. She definitely didn't do me any favors with that attitude, that's for sure.

                              I have way better friends that are actually there for me and help me. Sometimes they've had to point out some harsh realities to me and yet we're still friends. Why? Because they showed enough respect for me to not just let me do stupid stuff without SAYING/DOING something. Something other than blowing sunshine up my skirt about how cool I am.

                              That's the kind of 'friend' I want to be to my kid. The kind that actually helps you, NOT the kind that just tells you what you want to hear.

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