SUVs

[Seshat]

Which brings us to our next topic of debate: why SUVs should be done away with for the most part...

Greenday put this in the Gun Control thread in the Politics forum.


Now, I'm not sure of the exact definition of SUV. But I'll put down my thoughts.

1. Off-road vehicles are useful, and in some cases necessary. Pipe layers, cable layers, road-buildings and others like them who work where roads are poor or not present at all need them. So do most farmers, foresters, and a whole bunch of other people who come to mind after a moment's thought.

2. Some urban people go off-road enough for recreation to find them useful or necessary.

3. The all-around safety cage on many off-road vehicles is a good feature, and one which is, IMO, desirable. This is probably part of what makes some people buy SUVs 'for safety'.

4. Large vehicles with poor or no crumple zone are 'aggressive'. That's a shorthand term which means that in an accident between an aggressive car and another vehicle, the other vehicle will take more damage that it would with the vehicle they designate as 'neutral' for the test. Aggressive vehicles will also usually do a lot more damage to pedestrians, motorcyclists and bicyclists than the neutral vehicle would.
From what I've heard 'SUV' used to mean, it sounds like many of them would be aggressive cars.

5. There's work going on to make cars which simultaneously protect passengers and are non-aggressive. Some safety rating sites will rate their cars both on passenger safety and aggressiveness. It's not necessary to have an aggressive SUV to stay safe.

6. Safety includes a lot of factors - driver vision, personal security and reversing visibility are important, as is having a vehicle that the driver is capable of properly handling, as is not blocking other drivers' vision. Some purchasers of SUV who buy them 'for safety' aren't thinking of the full range of factors, they're just listening to buzzwords and peer pressure.

7. Some of the factors in point 6 are lower in importance in a country setting than they are in an urban setting.


Summary:
Off-road vehicles are necessary. Safe vehicles are necessary. It's not necessary to buy off-road vehicles for safety. Vehicles designed for off-road, country use may be actively dangerous in an urban setting.

[AFPheonix]

What's more, some "SUVs" that try to make people think they're safer because they are supposedly more rugged really are no more safer than a car structure wise, and are more unsafe to drive because the center of balance is higher than a standard sedan.
Stupid people driving big cars that they can't handle annoy the living crap out of me, and that includes twits who drive anything ranging from lincolns to escalades to those freaking full-sized pickups with the retarded spoiler over the bed. Why in god's name would you get a truck and then ruin the ability to put anything in the bed by putting a hideous piece of fiberglass over it? To me a truck is something that gets loaded to the gills with gravel or bedding or hay or whatnot, not something that is a pretty pretty fu-fu car.

[ArenaBoy]

The main problem that Greenday was most likely complaining about is that they are ubiquitous and used by people for the wrong reasons. Yes there are people who use them for the right reasons but in States so many idiots use them for the wrong reason and see it as a status symbol.

My main complaint is due to their size. It's frustrating trying to turn onto a road and your vision is blocked because some SUV is blocking your view.

[Greenday]

My problem with SUVs is that while they have practical uses, how many people who buy them actually use them for those uses? How many people who buy SUVs ONLY use them to get from A to B? More often than not. I know a decent amount of people who own SUVs. And only ONE actually uses it for off-road purposes and lifting capabilities. My sister wants a SUV. I still can't figure out why. She never, EVER goes off-road. She doesn't need it to carry stuff around.

This brings us to the issue of mileage. It's a known fact that SUVs don't get the best of mileage. Hell, the Z06 Corvette I want gets 26 mpg. How many SUVs get that great of mileage? The Honda Pilot gets an amazing 22 mpg. All Chevy trucks and SUVs get 24 or less mpg. More than half of Ford's SUVs don't even get past 25mpg. Hell, my little Cavalier gets 30 mpg. When you look at it on a mass scale, that's a lot of gas being wasted.

[rahmota]

Seshat: SUV stands for Sport Utility Vehicle a fancy name the auto industry came up with to try and make what used to be industrial/agricultural /off road vehciles appeal to a more urban market. They used the safety and "passenger room" (I say that in quotes due to the passenger room in some SUVs being not what you would expect from their monster size) to sell to women and the aggressive go anywhere toughness and durability to appeal to the masculine (or wnna be masculine) crowd.

You are very right about the crash worthiness of most SUV's not to mention since they ride higher usually they will hit above the steel beams in the doors of most cars and such or as in the case of ones that have been lifted beyond reason run up and over the car in front of them in a crash. (I dont mind a mild suspension lift but come on not everyone needs to be driving bigfoot or gravedigger down the road!!!!) Or at the very least hit in a way that they go voer the bumpers and do more damage to the vehicle and occupants themselves than they should or would have if the bumpers had met.

Not to mention that a lot of the Cute Utes (Smaller SUVS such as the Kia and saturns) are not much more than a regular car unibody being marketed the same as the bigger durangos and escalades and such. Which means peopel are expecting a sense of safety and security that they dont get.

Also driving one of them is quite different than driving a regular car. They have the higher center of gravity, traction works differently witht he aggresive treads and four wheel drive, Not to mention the way some people equate four wheel drive with extra ability to drive on snow and ice and wet. All cars have four wheel stopping same as an SUV so you dont have a leg up with one in stopping in that kind of goo just getting going better.

You know what else is bad about a lot of the SUVs speakign, as someone who off roads, a lot of them are just too big to go down the trails. You can tell when someone trys to take a too big SUV down some of the trails because there's paint on the rocks and trees or a mirror or two laying about. Not to mention a lot of them are not very nimble on the trails. About like watchign an elephant trying to tap dance.

Give me a nice 1978 CJ or a Military jeep from M*A*S*H and I'll be downright happy. Their small and nimble and still get decent milage and yet are quit able to go dang near anywhere you can find to go. But you know what for most general purposes my 4*2 truck takes me just abot everywhere i need to go and get done aroud the farm. A lot of it is knowing how to drive. I've actually wound up pulling 4*4s out of the ditch before (disclaimer: I've also been on the other end of the tow rope before too) because their drivers was like "I had it in four wheel drive and still went off the road". Wel duh thats because you tried to take a curve at 50 on ice.

About fuel economy at least some of the companies are trying to do somethign about that to give them a bone. Jeep is going with CRD (Common Rail Diesel) in the Liberty and Grand Cherokees, Ford bought toyota's synergy drive and toyota is making hybrids of all their vehicles. Sad thing is the Highlander Hybrid is still only going to get 33 city/28hwy in 2wd and 31/27 with the 4wd (which is kinda neat as the rear wheels are driven only by an electric motor which means mondo torque at least!!) and its expected over the next few years for more hybrids to be released. But that still wont take the older ones off the road for quite a few years.

AFP: I know what you mena about spoilers and trucks. When Dodge came out with the Daytona Ram with a spoiler BOLTED to the bedrail I just had to sigh. I mean as if the Viper Ram wasnt bad enough at turnign a work truck into a toy. Oh well rednecks have been taking trucks and doing stupid stuff with them since trucks came out but at least the beds where still able to be used for the most part and it wasnt the factory themselves admiting that the truck was totally a toy and plaything and not charging an extra 2 grand or so to do so.


But mainly

used by people for the wrong reasons

is the biggest problem with SUVs.
The only thing about that is we cant legislate against stupidity and right now if people will buy it then companies will build it. So unless you keep companies from building it or otherwise interfere in the market somehow (gasp hororros in a capitalist economy) people will still get them.

What should be done is require and enforce the traffic regulations on height and safety standards for vehicles that are already in place (yeah I'm not popular with some of my friends with lifted vehicles but like I said theres lifted and then theres jacked so high I can drive another car under you)

Require all vehicles meet emission and fuel economy standards with no exceptions. Right now vehicles over a certain curb weight are exempted from them federally which is why some SUVs suffered from bloat to get them over that hurdle.

Pretty much other than that though anybody should be able to have what they want and can afford. Putting limits on things other than that is not exactly kosher.

[protege]

Also driving one of them is quite different than driving a regular car. They have the higher center of gravity, traction works differently witht he aggresive treads and four wheel drive, Not to mention the way some people equate four wheel drive with extra ability to drive on snow and ice and wet. All cars have four wheel stopping same as an SUV so you dont have a leg up with one in stopping in that kind of goo just getting going better.

All too often, I see SUVs on their sides, or into walls around here during the winter. Too many idiots think that 4WD makes them immune to the effects of ice--these fools usually are the first people to slide on ice, and then complain about how "dangerous" the roads are. Give me a freaking break. You do *not* need a truck or SUV to get around Pittsburgh in the winter, even with the hills. My (now-gone) Mazda Protege (sold as the 323 "across the pond") got around just fine in winter. Hell, I'm sure I got some serious respect from an SUV owner the night of the ice storm last year--he simply couldn't climb one of the hills; I just put it into 2nd, and walked right up. Can you say "Pwned?"

I think most of that attitude comes from the commercials and other materials promoting those things. All too often, you see the vehicle blasting along country roads, usually with tiny print reading "closed road/professional driver" or "drive responsibly" at the bottom. With the emphasis on speed, it's no wonder some SUV owners drive like idiots.

[IDrinkaRum]

We have a smaller SUV. It's 2005 Mazda Tribute. I mainly drive it Monday to Friday to get from Point A to Point B. (Which usually means from my house to my mom's house or my house to my sister's house or my house to a grocery store).

On the weekends, my husband uses it to get all of us from Point A to Point B to Point C to Point A again.

The only time we go "off-roading" is when we visit his parents who live in the middle of nowhere on a road that is not paved.

My husband drives my 2000 Honda Civic to work Monday to Friday. It gets better gas mileage than the Mazda ergo, it's his "work" car.

My husband is 5'10" and roughly 450 pounds. When he gets out of my Honda, it looks like my car is giving birth to him. It's a pretty hilarious sight.

I don't like SUVs. I don't see the point in them for us living in the suburbs.

However, because of my husband's body size, to be fair, I have agreed to a car that will make him feel comfortable 2 days out of the week for him to ride in. All the family type sedans and other cars are all being stream lined to be more eco-friendly and get better gas mileage from their aerodynamic looks.

My. husband. cannot. fit. into. one. of. those. Until I can get him slimmed down, we're going to have to have an SUV parked in front of our house.

[Boozy]

My husband is 5'10" and roughly 450 pounds. When he gets out of my Honda, it looks like my car is giving birth to him. It's a pretty hilarious sight.

What a mental picture! Thanks for the laugh.

I would consider your husband's size to be a decent reason to get an SUV. People with specific physical attributes or disabilities need special accommodations, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Otherwise, I am vehemently against people driving SUVs for reasons other than work. They're not generally any safer, and they make the roads a far more dangerous place for those of us driving lightweight, fuel-efficient and environmentally-conscious vehicles.

And I don't particularly like paying more for gas just because the demand has gone up due to all these SUV guzzlers.

I grew up in an area with NO paved roads. Heavy dirt and gravel, hairpin turns, pot-holes, flooding in the spring, ice and snow in the winter, you name it. My family has always driven normal cars as our non-work vehicles. (We do farm, so obviously we use pick-up trucks for hauling). Put a set of winter tires on any manual transmission commuter car, and you can handle pretty much anything.

Purchasing an SUV for appearances or because "you just like it" is just socially irresponsible.

[rahmota]

People with specific physical attributes or disabilities need special accommodations, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Either that or get an old 70s barge. but as my wife says not everyone is queen of the nile..

Seriously though I'm 6'00" as well and some cars are just beyond uncomfortable they are an actual physical problem to drive/ride in so yeah that would be one valid reason to have an SUV. I remember the one mechanic at the dealership who stood 6'6" trying to drive a miata. He could only drive a convertible with the top down as his head stuck up over the windshield line. Look like a shriner he did in one of them. (which is why the service manager always made sure he got one just for the laughs...)

But yeha Boozy and Protege are right know what you're doing and unless you are doing or going somewhere extreme a 4*2 will get you there.

[IDrinkaRum]

Rahmota - you just reminded me of my ex-boyfiend who was 6'4". He totaled his 1984 Pontiac Trans Am and was in the process of getting a new car. He tried to get a Saturn. The guy at the dealership was like "I don't want to lose a sale, but there is no way you're going to be getting into that car." He tried, but yeah, it was a no go.

[protege]

Some of the smaller SUVs are a bit cramped for me. I'm only 5'9" or so, and I can't stand to ride in the back of my mother's Vue. There's not enough room for my feet! For me, it's uncomfortable, since I sometimes need to stretch out a bit. I've driven it a few times, but I don't like how it handles. It seems like it floats all over the place, and I always feel like it's going to tip over, even at 25mph.

BTW, did you know one of those nice bookshelf kits from IKEA will fit into a little Toyota Corolla? Neither did I I just dropped the rear seat, shoved the front seat forward, and in it went!

[AFPheonix]

My brother has one of the lil' Honda Fits. For a small car, it's VERY roomy in there. I adored my Matrix for the same reason. Too bad I couldn't find another to replace it when it was totalled for a reasonable price.
I drive a Subaru wagon because I do haul a lot of crap around on a regular basis. In fact I've got a bunch of horse show gear in there I need to get out again. I love that car, it gets me everywhere in all sorts of inclement conditions and is less silly-tippy than an SUV with comparable cargo room.

[ArenaBoy]

I prefer little cars, I hate the feeling of almost tipping over in a SUV. You can do just as well in bad conditions with a small car just the same.

My brother has one of the lil' Honda Fits. For a small car, it's VERY roomy in there.

I've considered that to be my next car, I am getting it for sure if I can fit my 6'2 self in there.