Man jailed for fighting off knife-wielding attacker. Attacker goes free

[Rapscallion]

True, but the fact that the media can find even those cases is pretty damned sickening to begin with.

True, but to be fair the media are famous for avoiding mentioning details that don't work with their particular mindset.

Rapscallion

[BlaqueKatt]

Why not? Why not shoot habitual criminals? They, by their own choice, contribute jack shit to society, cause general suffering and frankly, are a nuisance on par with rats or cockroaches or rabid dogs, with the only difference being that the latter three don't know better.

In my fair city being homeless is a crime-so hey shoot the homeless after all by your definition they're "habitual criminals" and contributing nothing to society by their own choice circumstances beyond their control. Most of the homeless here are due to not being able to hold a job due to mental illness, county help is a joke, we have a 1 year waiting list for psychiatric help and 2 year waiting list for free medications. Yes some do commit crimes, but society has failed them first. Some can't get a job because the economy is bad, my father-in-law was homeless(has been staying on various couches, including mine for a few months) because the dairy he worked at closed down and he's been looking for work for over 3 years and has found nothing-guess he should just be "put down". He isn't a criminal, but isn't being given an opportunity to "contribute to society" due to his age(he's 55, no one will hire him)

As I've said in a previous thread, you have someone who makes a mistake in judgment(their choice), goes to jail, reforms, gets out on parole/probation most places WON'T hire them(not their choice)-they still require food and shelter, but have no way to make an "honest living" as it's been denied to them based on past actions that have been paid for-what are they supposed to do? In your "perfect world" their only options are to starve/freeze to death or kill themselves, as they aren't given any opportunity to "contribute to society" and instead fall back to criminal activities merely to survive(again not by choice). It's a vicious cycle.

[draggar]

I'm glad I live in Florida - we have the "stand your ground" law. You can use up to deadly force if you feel your life is in danger in your own home.

It's been tested several times and not once has it been shot down.

[jackfaire]

I'm glad I live in Florida - we have the "stand your ground" law. You can use up to deadly force if you feel your life is in danger in your own home.

But can you pursue someone away from home and then beat them to death when they are provably no longer a threat?

[draggar]

But can you pursue someone away from home and then beat them to death when they are provably no longer a threat?

The article makes it believe that "the beating" occurred on their front lawn - not away from the home and it doesn't take much with a metal pole and a cricket bat to cause serious harm (one good hit can do that - especially from an adrenalinized (is that a word?) person protecting his family.

"On the ground" is not "not a threat" - he could have reached for a weapon (gun etc..).

If someone breaks into my home (obviously with malicious intent) I am glad I have the right to use reasonable means to protect my home and family (and I have the only weapons that cannot be turned against you - protection trained dogs) which can include leathal force, if needed.

No, that doesn't give me the right to shoot anyone who just happens to walk on my property (hence reasonable means) but I am allowed to defend myself.

Did the father go to far? Who knows - none of us were there when it all happened but the fact (according to the article) is that the perpitrator did break into their house and threaten to kill them - IMO leathal force is justified.

Edti: As for the brother - he was defending his family, too.

[Greenday]

The guy was pinned to the ground, draggar. How much of a lethal threat was he then if they had enough time to get weapons? He was running away from the house. I don't believe for a second you send your dogs after someone running away from your house once they are outside. While inside your house, Kiri and Co. would rip them to shreds but when the threat is running away, why are they still a threat at all?

[draggar]

I've seen a few police officers with someone pinned down yet they still put up one hell of a fight (the person who was pinned down, not the police).

I've also seen people run away just far enough for them to pull out a weapon and come back and try to make trouble again.

When you're going after someone who is a threat you grab whatever weapon you can.

Off the property is one story, on the property is another. Don't forget I don't live in the best of neighborhoods - pepper spray is a common accessory when I walk the dogs - even around my own building.

And yes, Kiri and Zorro (Gallon has been rehomed) would rip them to shreds. She put me in the hospital for 2 nights because of an accidental bite (she missed her toy and got my arm), I'd hate to see what's left of someone if she meant it.

The paper referred to him as a career criminal. Guess what? He'll have no more victims and I'm sure his two friends may think twice the next time they try to pull something like this.

I have little respect for people who try to prey on the defenceless (or who they think are defenceless), take what others have worked hard for, and terrorize people just for their own profit / enjoyment.

[Nyoibo]

But can you pursue someone away from home and then beat them to death when they are provably no longer a threat?

Prove he was no longer a threat.

The guy was pinned to the ground, draggar. How much of a lethal threat was he then if they had enough time to get weapons? He was running away from the house. I don't believe for a second you send your dogs after someone running away from your house once they are outside. While inside your house, Kiri and Co. would rip them to shreds but when the threat is running away, why are they still a threat at all?

They already had weapons when they caught up with him, they didn't pin him then go back into the house and get weapons and come back out.

"When the threat is running away, why are they still a threat at all?" as has been said before, running away to get a weapon, get mates to come back, that's still a threat.

[Greenday]

"When the threat is running away, why are they still a threat at all?" as has been said before, running away to get a weapon, get mates to come back, that's still a threat.

Better find out where they live and kill them there then.

[Nyoibo]

Better find out where they live and kill them there then.

I have no problem with that.

[jackfaire]

I have no problem with that.

Then by that logic someone who perceives you to be a threat is entitled to track you down kill you and should not be held accountable in a court of law because they felt threatened by you.

[Slytovhand]

Prove he was no longer a threat.

He tried that, and failed. That's why he got 2 years behind bars for GBH, rather than let off as self-defence! You've just done your argument to shreds there...


Now, who was going to suggest that the burglar had another weapon they were about to pull out? Because, surely if he had one, he wouldn't have been running away without first pulling it out???

[Nyoibo]

Then by that logic someone who perceives you to be a threat is entitled to track you down kill you and should not be held accountable in a court of law because they felt threatened by you.

No, if you want to argue logic then do it properly, if I broke into someones home tied them up and threatened them, then yes.

[jackfaire]

No, if you want to argue logic then do it properly, if I broke into someones home tied them up and threatened them, then yes.

So your argument is that if someone commits a crime against me where I felt threatened I am now entitled to kill them at my leisure, ie tracking them to their home and killing them.

So why can't I just kill them because I think they might commit a crime against me? Heck what if I get notified that a registered sex offender is living in my neighborhood?

Should I go kill him because I am afraid he might attack my kids even though what I haven't been told is that he hasn't spoken to his wife's parents since they put him in jail for "raping" his girlfriend now wife?

We don't know the circumstances of other people's lives which is one of the reason's we have a court of law. We trust our judges and juries to make the decisions like this for the precise fact of our own bad judgment.

The punishment should fit the crime. Death for theft is not equitable.

[Greenday]

No, if you want to argue logic then do it properly, if I broke into someones home tied them up and threatened them, then yes.

So you come to my house, rob me, then leave. You're saying it's ok for me to later find you and bludgeon you to the point of death?

We can't just go around beating up whoever we want just because they MIGHT be a threat in the future. If that was true I could have justifiably attacked half my graduating class in high school because I felt threatened.