General defends court martial for pregnant soldiers

[joe hx]

source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8422989.stm

Since pregnant soldiers get sent home, United States Maj Gen Anthony Cucolo wants to punish soldiers who get pregnant. Somehow this applies to both male and female soldiers (I guess if Arnold Schwarzenegger joins).

Not sure if this was political or social, so I just threw it in the Social Woes area.

[alowlypotato]

Applies to both the pregnant individual and the alleged impregnater, maybe?

I'm having difficulty sussing out how I feel about this. I guess I can understand the rationale behind it, as long as it doesn't apply to situations in which consent is at issue. You do have a choice whether or not to have sex, after all, and if having sex could jeopardize your ability to contribute to your unit, then you should proceed with caution.

At the same time, this is the sort of thing that could lead to a detrimental double standard. A serviceman goes out and gets his rocks off, no one thinks twice about it. His female colleague goes looking for some action, and suddenly it's a question of possible insubordination: you could get pregnant, girl! And that's a punishable offense! Shouldn't you think twice about what you're doing? Maybe you just shouldn't have sex at all! ('Cause, hey, contraception fails. Sometimes, even if you're correctly using multiple forms, you just...happen to get "lucky.")

I don't know. In the end, I think court martial is a little severe (it stays with you for life). Non-judicial punishment? That might make more sense, but even that makes me feel...weird. It's a tricky thing.

[Greenday]

Well, on the one hand, I see his side. Some women in the military are getting pregnant on purpose so they can get the benefits without having to travel overseas or be in the action. Some men are trying to use it as an excuse saying they need to be home to raise the family. It's definitely harmful to the unit.

On the other hand...well, you're supposed to keep it in your pants so yea. I mean, shit happens when you are on leave with your spouse, but still. Irresponsibility leads to major issues in the military.

[BlaqueKatt]

Well, on the one hand, I see his side. Some women in the military are getting pregnant on purpose so they can get the benefits without having to travel overseas or be in the action.

or to go home once there-if a female servicemember gets pregnant in a war zone she must be sent home within 14 days of learning of the pregnancy-if she would miscarry or have an abortion she does not get sent back. It takes longer than 14 days to get a replacement for her so you have an incomplete group that is not working efficiently. Say you have a group of soldiers we'll say 20 ratio of men to women in combat zones is 70/30-so 6 of them are female-if all 6 get preggers to go home you have a group of 14 attempting to do the work of 20-not good. Trust me the military will provide any method of BC you want free of charge for all servicemembers-pill, IUD, Depo, norplant, condoms.

Plus pregnant soldiers are usually given "desk duty" which displaces someone that actually signed up for and is trained to do that job-yes Administrative assistant is a valid MOS in the military.

[Stormraven]

I read about this in another forum, where it was pointed out that the US Military's medical plan doesn't cover abortions or the morning after pill.

So this basically means that if a service member gets raped (an entirely too common situation) and gets pregnant, she can then be court-martialed. At least, as presented on that other forum. I've been too long out of the service to know the current situation.

[BlaqueKatt]

So this basically means that if a service member gets raped (an entirely too common situation) and gets pregnant, she can then be court-martialed.

I'm guessing that if the rape was reported this would not be the case, however claiming rape to get out of the courts Martial would be suspect-National Center For Violence Against women puts the percentage of rapes that result in pregnancy(if no form of birth control is used), at 8%-that's actually a pretty low number. That's the highest number I've found some studies put it at 1-2%

[Boozy]

I also find 8% rather high. Even for couples purposefully timing intercourse in order to conceive, the likelihood of pregnancy in any given cycle is 15-20%. Women are only fertile for about five days a month. 1-2% sounds more likely.

[BlaqueKatt]

I also find 8% rather high. 1-2% sounds more likely.

couldn't find an unbiased source-so I put down both the high and the low.

the "violence against women" figure was part of an article demanding a law to mandate all rape victims be given "plan b"-without regard to their wishes/feelings/medical history, and excluded sexual assaults where the woman was on hormonal bc or surgically sterilized, and the 1-2% was from pro-life groups with the math and stats to back it up further, including those on hormonal bc and surgically sterilized victims-both were highly biased, used questionable math and therefore not worth linking to.

[crashhelmet]

There's a misunderstanding here on several fronts. All judicial matters are Court Martials. They don't always end in Dishonorable Discharges, or even discharges at all for that matter. Could be a demotion, a reassignment, or charges dropped and they're Article 15'd into latrine duty or sumthin.

This is sounding like nothing more than a scare tactic designed to keep his staffing. The thing though is that if he starts making accusations of intentional pregnancies to get out of duty, he's in danger of facing one himself.

CH

[Amina516]

Does anyone else see the potential issues from demanding the impregnators name from the pregnant woman? I can see men saying "SHHH! Dont say it was me!" and threatening/commiting violence. Or some women naming the wrong individuals to save others, or get someone else in trouble. Im hoping it doesnt come to that. I am a pessimist though. Could be why my mind went that way.

[Tanasi]

For REMF units replacements aren't really that big of a deal but combat arms units replacement do make a big difference. The CA units have trained, sweated, and bled with each other. You become closer to your buddies than any family member that you've ever had.
I understand the General's frustration. His command was ordered to keep it in their pants, you can't control yourself let him know and he'll make sure you're kept under control. When I was over there after DS we have 4 or 5 females get preggers on purpose so they could go home. They didn't care about the benifits they wanted to go home because our mission was too hard for them. So instead of "manning up or womaning up" they chose the easy way out. Heck I have more respect for a coward than this piss-poor whiney assed way of getting home.
NJP wouldn't work too well in this case because you'll still loose the soldier therefore CM is the next step, it's even possible for the soldier to demand a CM instead of NJP. Those SEALs that are being CMed for roughing up that fellow refused NJP and demanded a CM (it's their right.) They knew they did nothing wrong and beside NJP also stays on your record.

[Slytovhand]

The male sexual partners of female soldiers who get pregnant would also "face the consequences", he said.

How?? How do you get a civilian to "face the consequences" for a military system?? (well, ok, given Gitmo etc, that's obvious.. but you know... legally)

[Nyoibo]

I think he means more male military personel who get female soldiers pregnant.

[Fashion Lad!]

Applies to both the pregnant individual and the alleged impregnater, maybe?

It does. And so far they've only reprimanded 7 people. The worst punishment was handed to a guy who got a girl pregnant when he was married to another woman. What did he get? He got a letter that is placed in his permanent file. The rest of them have letters in their files, but they will drop off after a certain time period.

[Stormraven]

Update on this issue.

Reading this article, it's made plain that a CM was intended as the final, worst punishment, and that the General in question didn't intend to give any, though he apparently wanted the option open.