New York EMTs accused of ignoring pregnant woman having a seizure

[IDrinkaRum]

The EMTs and the woman were at an Au Bon Pan restaurant when she seizured. During seizure she had heart attack and died.

Witnesses said EMTs were more interested in ordering food than looking at woman. Employees said EMTs told them to call 911.

The woman's baby was delivered but died 2 hours later. She left behind a 3-year-old son.

Is this taking "off the clock" too far?

[Greenday]

What were they supposed to do, pull an ambulance out of their asses, complete with gear?

[Nyoibo]

The only way I can see this not being negligent is if their training had lapsed and that's why they were working as dispatchers.

[BlaqueKatt]

The only thing I'm going to say is until the investigation is complete-is it took 9 minutes from the start of the seizure to cardiac arrest-I'm guessing eclampsia-nothing anyone could've done, and that's normally caught during routine checkups(only treatment is delivering the baby early)...soooo-I'm holding any criticism from the EMT's. However the family stating "we're gonna sue" is just sick-will it bring her back?

[Slytovhand]

OMG - someone died! I have to find someone (else) to blame!

I've got no information to go on... and neither did the Mayor, to be making such comments. The time periods??? Who was checking? (sure, there the records for the calls to emergency..., but that's really all at this stage).

BK - I can sort of appreciate if it there's going to be problems for her son left behind... but that's all! Unfortunately, it seems like it's the first response. I believe the 'grieving process' has been modified now... Shock, Denial, Acceptance, Sue, Guilt.

[jackfaire]

If they actually knew about the woman and willfully did nothing I say they deserve jail time.

I am sorry this would be like an off duty cop not stopping a purse snatcher that runs by him cuz, "Hey I am off the clock lady".

Obviously the consequences wouldn't be as severe.

However at this time until an investigation is complete we don't know how much of this story is true.

[Slytovhand]

I will mention one bit of the story - even when the first ambulance arrived, they weren't aware it was 'critical'.. which at least implies to me, at first it wasn't....

Just saying..

[LeChatNoir]

I think those who are trained and certified as medical professionals have a responsibility to provide assistance when they are able. Perhaps they could not have done anything to save this woman or her baby, but they could have at least tried while another ambulance was dispatched. The fact that they pretty much turned the other cheek seems morally reprehensible. If you have the abilities to potentially make the difference in a life or death situation then you should use them. I'm not saying this applies to any Joe off the street, but considering these two were trained paramedics the fact that they did nothing is pretty disgusting.

[Greenday]

I think those who are trained and certified as medical professionals have a responsibility to provide assistance when they are able. Perhaps they could not have done anything to save this woman or her baby, but they could have at least tried while another ambulance was dispatched. The fact that they pretty much turned the other cheek seems morally reprehensible. If you have the abilities to potentially make the difference in a life or death situation then you should use them. I'm not saying this applies to any Joe off the street, but considering these two were trained paramedics the fact that they did nothing is pretty disgusting.

This story gives an evidence of the paramedics actually knowing it was an emergency...where? I don't see any mention of them knowing it was that serious. And if they had done anything to help her, and she died, which seemed likely to happen regardless, they are held legally responsible.

[Nyoibo]

EMT's, not paramedics and who knows what level they were trained to, if they're only basic level then there's not a damn thing they could do, they were also working dispatch, which could mean any number of things.

[joe hx]

At first I thought maybe union rules prevented them from working off the clock, so I did a bit of reading.

Following quotes from http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...n6006571.shtml:

A spokesman for the EMT union said the situation with its resulting accusation was an "odd event," and that EMTs generally consider their jobs to be a 24-hour kind of thing.

"If there was unprofessional conduct by these EMTs, the union does not condone any type of conduct which in any way can harm members of the public," he said.

[Greenday]

EMT's, not paramedics and who knows what level they were trained to, if they're only basic level then there's not a damn thing they could do, they were also working dispatch, which could mean any number of things.

Nyoibo makes a good point. EMTs are NOT paramedics. Generally EMTs only know a fraction of what paramedics know. Not to knock EMTs, but still, paramedics are much better equipped to save someone from life threatening injuries.

[Nyoibo]

I know as much if not more than the basic EMT's in the US, it's basically an advanced first aid course.

[Shangri-laschild]

I know as much if not more than the basic EMT's in the US, it's basically an advanced first aid course.

Exactly. The officers in my department are trained as EMTs and all that means is they are able to be first responders. They do what they can to keep things from getting worse while the ambulance/paramedics is enroute. Sometimes with just EMT training, there's nothing you can do except maybe keep people back and stop anyone from making the situation worse.

This isn't to say though that there's nothing at all that can be done. The second article, linked by joe hx says that they told the patrons to call 911 and then left despite being asked to help. I don't know if there were other things going on or not. Maybe someone else was helping her and they thought the situation was under control or something else was going on. Even then, I don't know that they should have left. There might be more to the story, but if it turns out they just left instead of helping then they definitely messed up.

Now I'm not at all saying they shouldn't have helped, or that as EMTs, refusing to help shouldn't effect their job. Just wondering what the general opinion is. There are plenty of people who have the same training as EMTs but aren't in the same job. Do they have the same responsibility and is it a moral or legal responsability. If the EMTs hadn't been there and the family found out that one of the other people present had the same training but was a teacher, would they be just as justified suing the teacher for not doing anything?

[Nyoibo]

I know that in Australia if you have medical or first aid training you are not legally obligated to help, however if you do we have "good samaritan" laws in place that protect you from litigation so long as you don't go outside your training.