The "Underwear Bomber"...and yet more security checks

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Even if they modified it to exclude/automatically cover the are in questions, guess where the bombers will put the bomb?

I, personally, didn't see squat on that pic (though, it may have been blurred).

Come to think of it, wouldn't a nice blur or mosaic work perfect for this? Just have it go from left to right in a band, the operator can manipulate the height to keep the children 'decent' and meanwhile, any anomalously bright or dark object stands a decent chance of being seen.......

[lordlundar]

My big beef with these new tactics is that they look great for publicity, but as far as proper security they do squat. The bomber got on the plane not because the scanners weren't there to detect them or there weren't the regulations there to stop him, but because security was not properly trained and stupid enough to let him on. Up here in Canada we still have 4000 security personnel without proper security clearance training and a turnaround of 25%. The US is worse, and they are barely paid over minimum wage.

Where's the plan to properly train and pay proper security personnel to actually do a proper job at stopping these terrorists before they get on a plane? Where's the plan to get proper scanning and detection equipment for cargo, which is very low in priority for detection, and has no where near the security checkpoints. There isn't any. Instead there's the plan to implement more stupid regulations and body scanners to be handled by these same people who let these bombers onto planes in the first place, all to give the impression that they are improving security without actually doing so.

There are airports which exist in known terrorist heavy areas and are targeted on a monthly basis with zero successful attempts in years.

[Greenday]

So you are saying we need proper scanning but metal detectors, which detect only metal, are enough to do proper scanning?

Crushed up Chlorine Tablets
Bottle of Isopropyl Alcohol

BOOM

How is today's standard procedures, with just metal detectors, going to stop that? Drug sniffing dogs don't sniff for those.

[MadMike]

I love when people quote other people from hundreds of years ago and act like what they said at the time applies to now.

It has to do with the government becoming too corrupt and powerful, and taking our freedoms away piece by piece. So it applies just as much today as it did back then.

[Greenday]

Except we aren't giving up any freedoms. And it's not a little bit of safety.

[Vagabond]

I will also make the statement that the tube was bombed 7/7, yet no extra security measures have been put in place there. And guess what, there hasn't been another attack since; and people are still using the tube. True, some other nutzo group might try and bomb it, but taking away people's rights to dignity and privacy won't stop these people. Hell, these people don't even care if they die in the process, as long as they take some of us evil Western citizens with them.

There will probably always be people who want to destroy things and blow things up. Taking extra 'security measures' will not stop or deter this. CCTV does not stop or deter anyone. Granted successful prosecutions may have increased, but it has not stopped or deterred anyone who is determined. Why subject the masses for the actions of a few?

It has to do with the government becoming too corrupt and powerful, and taking our freedoms away piece by piece. So it applies just as much today as it did back then.

I agree with MadMike. And as Lace Neil Singer pointed out - since the attacks on the tube, there haven't been anymore. How many attacks have been stopped by the American security measures? So, how effective are the security measures and who/what are they protecting?

Liberty
–noun,
1. freedom from arbitrary or despotic government or control.
2. freedom from external or foreign rule; independence.
3. freedom from control, interference, obligation, restriction, hampering conditions, etc.; power or right of doing, thinking, speaking, etc., according to choice.
4. freedom from captivity, confinement, or physical restraint: The prisoner soon regained his liberty.
5. freedom or right to frequent or use a place: The visitors were given the liberty of the city.
**my bold for emphasis**
A quick google-fu for "total information awareness act"; wikipedia.
Big Brother, Orwell, and 1984 aside, I think it sets a dangerous precedent and allows for a slippery slope. My question would be - where do you draw the line at where the 'security measures' stop? When I'm providing chromosomal DNA evidence to get a cola at the local newsagent, just to prove I'm not a criminal?

[jackfaire]

I hate the term slippery slope no matter which side uses it because it's a false argument.

No I will not give up my freedom. I don't consider being body scanned to be giving up my freedom if others do fine don't fly.

Also don't tell me it is giving up my freedom when I am not giving up my freedom.

[Lace Neil Singer]

What if the government decides that a body scan isn't enough, and demands an internal body search? You know, cuz no-one complained about the body scans.

[fireheart17]

Edit: actually, I don't know why terrorists would be particularly interested in planes, since they'd never again have a load of passengers that would let them crash one. It seems like it would be a lot easier to blow up Wal-Marts... and a lot more terrifying: (nearly) all of us go to Wal-Mart regularly, while hardly anyone is on a plane more than a couple of trips a year.

I'm guessing it has more impact. Also, the belief that they are over international waters, they're immune to laws? (I'm just throwing that last one out there)

* (who's a terrorist, who's not? Who's fighting a war, and who's not? And, lastly, who are they actually working for??)

I actually did do some research on this for a class I'm studying. Check www.cfr.org (Council of Foreign Relations) for background information on the terrorist groups. That should explain hopefully-the difference between a terrorist and a freedom figter.

[Nyoibo]

Liberty
–noun,
1. freedom from arbitrary or despotic government or control.
2. freedom from external or foreign rule; independence.
3. freedom from control, interference, obligation, restriction, hampering conditions, etc.; power or right of doing, thinking, speaking, etc., according to choice.
4. freedom from captivity, confinement, or physical restraint: The prisoner soon regained his liberty.
5. freedom or right to frequent or use a place: The visitors were given the liberty of the city.
**my bold for emphasis**

The only way to truly have liberty like that is to be the most powerful in total anarchy.

[AdminAssistant]

The thing that pisses me off the most about all this is that now people think it is perfectly healthy and normal to "profile" all Muslim passengers. In freakin' America, we now wish to discriminate, sometimes against our own citizens, because of their faith and/or heritage. This is so so so wrong. Singling out Muslims doesn't make us any safer, but I guess it makes us all feel better to "punish" them, just because a small, radical group of them have committed crimes against America.

Hell, the British attacked the White House, so I guess we should start setting up extra security in Heathrow, right?

[Rapscallion]

so I guess we should start setting up extra security in Heathrow, right?

I think the US gubmint already has done...

Rapscallion

[AdminAssistant]

I think the US gubmint already has done...

Well, you guys might come over here and indoctrinate us with your metric system and funny sayings! Oh noes, hide the children!

[ArenaBoy]

High security checks aren't needed. What's needed is common sense. When someone's father is reporting them that should be ringing alarm bells.

That said, the way one goes on about the scanners you'd think they were being broadcast on a big screen in HD.

[jackfaire]

What if the government decides that a body scan isn't enough, and demands an internal body search? You know, cuz no-one complained about the body scans.

What if because we legalized interractial marriage people get it made legal to marry their dogs? It's a false argument.

If things worked that way then gay marriage wouldn't be having any issues because we would be on a slippery slope started by legalizing interracial marriages.

People will evaluate each security measure taken on it's own merit not simply accept it because after all we allowed metal detectors might as well accept everything else.

We are here debating this rather than accepting it blindly after all.

When someone's father is reporting them that should be ringing alarm bells..

God I would hope it didn't. Trigger a quiet investigation maybe send off warning bells. HELL NO. Imagine you have a family member pissed off at you and decides to raise concerns about you and because this person happens to be family you are detained and questioned for potential illegal activity. Arrested at work costing you your job, your reputation sullied, all because we took seriously someone whose judgment is suspect.