Breeding Genetic Disorders?

[RavenStarr]

A friend of mine has a baby girl who has downs syndrome, and has numerous health issues. She had heart surgery not long ago, and has a trachiotomy (sp) to help her breathe. My friend will tell you that this beautiful little girl saved her life and made her a better person.

My point is maybe it's meant to be for these children to be here. Who are we to question that?

[Lace Neil Singer]

Downs Syndrome is not a life threatening disorder, nor is autism. The disorders we're talking about are the ones that condemn a child to a life of darkness; being unable to do anything for themselves, to be vegetative, to die young. Why put a child thru that torture, just for your own selfish needs? Adopt. Give a child who has no parents and no happiness, both.

[IDrinkaRum]

Autism, at its worst, can be debilitating. To the point they could be vegetative. Those most afflicted cannot talk, cannot move, cannot go out into the world and fend for themselves. They will end up in institutions. Those with Aspberger's Syndrome have been known to commit suicide at a higher rate than those who don't have the disorder. Leaving them to die young. Also, because my dauhter's Autism seems more genetic than anything else, I have a higher chance of having another child with Autism - and even though my daughter is high-functioning, my next child may not be.

As to parents who knowingly have a child when there are genetic defects that can crop up and the parents know about it? It's still a freedom to reproduce. They should talk to a genetics doctor about the real possibilities of how badly their child may or may not be affected. Maybe even talk to those who have whatever genetic disorder the parents may or may not be passing down to their cihldren. Research is always a good thing.

I'm for adoption, but there are those like my BIL#1 who would never adopt because he doesn't want to be responsible for "another person's bastard". So adoption will never take off completely.

Mr. Rum and I are thinking about having another child, but right now it's in the thinking stages. We're stuck on the prospect of having another Autistic child.

[BlaqueKatt]

another thought that just occurred to me:

I know a couple(used to work with them),that always adopted pets from shelters because "buying from a breeder just adds to the number of homeless pets". however; they have lost their house, and almost all of their savings trying to "breed" their own child when there are currently quite a few children awaiting adoption*(can't find exact numbers)-they just had their first unsuccessful IVF in december(implanting 6 embryos-none took) and she's scheduled another one for february. I find this a bit ironic, as they'll get their pets from a shelter, but spend over $200,000 (so far) to have "their own" child.

*adoptions from the foster care system in WI are free of charge-they just want these kids with permanent families.

[draggar]

I wear glasses due to very bad eyesight. Would it be less selfish if I refused to risk passing my vision problems onto future kids?

My dad had a lazy eye that was passed onto my daughter.

I am just trying to understand what things should be considered selfish to pass on and which are not.

Plus if we don't risk passing on any of the bad things what if we end up leaving out the good things.

There is no definite "line" and we're both giving examples of extreme cases - one could be considered an inconvenience while the other is a severe impact on their life. We're looking at 1% of each end of the spectrum and I think at least 95% of the spectrum is a gray area.

I think it is up to the parents to decide if it is worth the risk or not. Things like minor eyesight issues (like needed glasses), ADD, controllable asthma are small - usually at worst an inconvenience. Severe issues, like my wife's coxovara, disabilities like blindness, strong / severe mental disabilities should be seriously considered before parents decide to have children.

If you and/or your partner are a known carrier of X genetic disorder and you knowingly reproduce, thereby taking the chance of passing the disorder on to your child, then you - and only you - are responsible for paying for their medical condtion until they come of age.

At which point, your child will be saddled with the full cost of their own medical care, unless you want to continue to contribute. No insurance company, government aid program, etc. will ever be responsible for paying for any medical care for the genetic defects you knowingly pass on. Essentially, you break it, you bought it.

While I agree the parents should be responsible for the costs (higher medical premiums etc..) I can't agree with all of a sudden throwing it all onto the child when they are 18 (and we know in some cases this will happen). (Not to sound cliche but..) The child didn't ask to be born nor did they ask to be born with the disability.

another thought that just occurred to me:

I know a couple(used to work with them),that always adopted pets from shelters because "buying from a breeder just adds to the number of homeless pets".

Funny you should mention this (dogs). While I agree this wasn't the point of your post I think we can look at what's been happening to many breeds of dogs since we can see the changes from generation to generation (and so on) in one of our lifetimes.

I think the breed is the dalmatian. There is a severe genetic disorder with dalmatians - they go into liver or kidney failure (I may be wrong about the breed and/or the organ affected but in a nutshell - 100% of this breed will have this disorder and it is extremely painful and fatal).

Back in the 1980's they found out that if you breed ONE generation of another breed (maybe a terrier of some kind?) that this genetic disorder is GONE with the puppies. Yes, you can eliminate this disorder in one generation with an out of breed breeding yet show people won't do this (and they all agree it's an issue but they claim it is not in their lines) because AKC won't recognize the dogs as pure breeds (they won't even acknowledge the ones from the 1980's). So, just to keep AKC happy we're breeding a breed of dog that has a 100% chance of having this painful and fatal disorder (granted something else doesn't kill them first - like bloat, accidents etc..).

German shepherds (don't worry, I won't go into it). There is a disease called degenerative mylopathy (sp?) (a.k.a. DM). This is yet another very painful and fatal disease in the breed.

The pair of genes that cause this have been discovered (last year or 2008) and it is very simple to find and eliminate form your lines.

Normal / Normal - The dog does not have the gene at all.
Normal / Abnormal - The dog has the gene but will not develop DM (carrier)
Abnormal / Abnormal - The dog has the gene and may develop DM

Here's the kicker - the A genes are RECESSIVE to the N genes. IN other words an A/A dog could be bred to a N/N dog and at worst the puppies would be A/N (most likely they'll be N/N) and if a puppy you like is A/N then you could breed that to a N/N and have the gene 10% out of the lines.

This disease can be eliminated in TWO generations yet many breeders in the GSD world, while they agree that it is an issue claim that it is not in their lines nor have they tested for it (what, are you psychic?).

Breeders, just for their own satisfaction and the ease of not taking care of the issue, are breeding a horrible disease in both breeds (I won't get into the other crap being done to GSDs). There are some instances where the same is happening in humans.

[Amanita]

IDrinkaRum, if your BIL (or anyone else ever made that "bastard" comment about adoption to me, I would have to be held back from smashing their lights out. I'm an adoptee. My bio-mom did not have the resources to care for a child, and wanted me to grow up in a stable home. I may not be the perfect picture of prosperity or success, but a "bastard" I most certainly am not.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Rum, I should have specified; I wasn't thinking of low functioning autism as such. But yes, there is a risk; and I myself wouldn't want to risk having a kid with Aspergers cuz of that. I wouldn't want a kid to go thru all that.

[IDrinkaRum]

IDrinkaRum, if your BIL (or anyone else ever made that "bastard" comment about adoption to me, I would have to be held back from smashing their lights out. I'm an adoptee. My bio-mom did not have the resources to care for a child, and wanted me to grow up in a stable home. I may not be the perfect picture of prosperity or success, but a "bastard" I most certainly am not.

My BIL said this comment in a public restaurant or I would have clocked him one. Instead, I was so stunned by his ignorance .... *shudders*

My dad's 2 brothers and 1 sister were adopted.

My mom's younger brother was adopted.

I dated a guy who was adopted.

I really want to adopt or at least foster children.

So yeah ... don't tell me about "bastards". GRRRRRRR.

[jackfaire]

My grandmother was adopted.

[Dreamstalker]

Aspergers itself has a wide range. With AS I think success depends on the support system. I had awesome teachers who, while not actually bending the rules, knew that my brain worked differently and I wouldn't necessarily use the same methods everyone else did. I had psychiatrists who wanted to institutionalize me. I was bullied (almost bordering on sexual harassment) for being "weird"*; mom taught me to fight back and we almost took the school to court when I was threatened with suspension and the bullies got off scot free.

When I graduated on-time (despite being forced to change my major midstream) from college, that was a surprise to everyone--well, except my parents


* Interestingly, the bullying only happened in the public school system, not in either of the private grade schools I was in

[blas87]

If I were pregnant, I'd want tests done to see if my child was "normal". I couldn't physically or mentally handle a special needs child and I wouldn't be able to afford the medical bills for a child that spent most of its younger years in and out of the hospital or doctor's office.

If that's selfish, I don't want to be selfless.

[Dreamstalker]

Understood completely. I feel that it is the parents' right to decide if they fully understand the consequences and are prepared to deal with whatever may result. Screening is a fine line though...when does it reach the point of 'designer babies' and breeding out any abnormalities at all?

I just saw a teaser for the latest Duggar family drama...she's having another kid via emergency c-section at 25 weeks You can't tell me there isn't a large possibility of issues--genetic or otherwise--in that family by now. I do recall hearing that at least a couple of the younger kids had developmental problems.

[Greenday]

How old is she? I'm guessing not young but genetic mutations occur at a MUCH higher rate as you get older.

[crashhelmet]

I have a disease called Osteogenesis Imperfecta. Commonly referred to as "Brittle Bone Disease," it's caused by a mutation in a Callogen gene, so it actually affects everything that Callogen is a building block for. Bones, teeth, hair, skin, etc.

This is a disease known to cause the death of babies during childbirth from being crushed while coming out of the womb. Most people have only heard of it because it's the disease that Samuel Jackson's character has in the movie "Unbreakable."

In my family, it all started with my mom. We've been unable to find any traces of it before her. She had a total of 5 kids, 8 grandkids, and 4 great-grandkids, up to this point. Of those 17 people, only 2 appear not to have it. 4 are confirmed carriers and the rest of us have been classified as "Type I."

I have had over 30 broken bones in my life. I've broken my right wrist, left forearm, both collar bones twice each, my nose 4 times, I've had both my right hand and right ankle reconstructed, and I've lost count of the number of times I've broken a finger, toe, or rib.

When my son was 4 months old, he was admitted into the hospital with 4 broken bones. His left femur (thigh), right tibia (shin), and 2 ribs on the left side. Within a year, he broke both legs again, and had to have 2 rods surgically put into his femur for a few months to help it heal right.

Everyone in my family that's had kids has known full well what the results could be. Yes, it's heart wrenching to see your child laid up in hospital bed and oh does the guilt set in. But we've all learned how to live with the disease.

I mentioned that I've broken over 30 bones in my life. In other posts I've also mentioned that I've trained in martial arts since i was 6 years old. Have Black Belts in 2 different styles and if my knees hold up (Ligament issues, not bones), I'll be getting it in a third soon. I also played baseball, football and hockey, along with other sports here and there. Yeah, I know. I'm stupid.

A lot of people with OI are worse off than we are. As I said, there is a high number of fatalities during the birthing process from it. Some spend their entire lives in wheelchairs. Others, like my youngest sister and my oldest sister have never broken a bone in their lives, but carry the disease.

With any disease/disorder, there's a risk of passing it on. There's the risk of it affecting them badly or not at all. There's also the risk that your'e going to get hit by a car on your way to work or a tree will fall over and crush your house with you in it.

If it's meant to be, it's meant to be. I choose to make the best of what I've been dealt, as good or bad as it may be.

CH

[Dreamstalker]

How old is she? I'm guessing not young but genetic mutations occur at a MUCH higher rate as you get older.

I think she must be over 40 at least by this point. She looks it, anyway.