Well it was easier

[jackfaire]

I think it is wrong to break the law. I think it is wrong to jaywalk, drive without a license, or kill someone. If you don't like the law work on getting it changed and follow it until you do.

I am getting tired of seeing companies and individuals violate the law when it is convenient for them to do so then turn around and talk about how people should obey such and such law.

If you violate the laws you are no better than anyone else that violated the laws. People will refer to themselves as upstanding law abidiing citizens while breaking the law because after all they aren't killing anyone.

Agree? Disagree?

[HYHYBT]

Disagree, up to a point. Jaywalking's a good one, since you mentioned it. The purpose of the law is to stop people from getting hit by cars and/or interrupting the flow of traffic. So it's not really something that ought to be repealed. But there's no legitimate reason not to do it when, for instance, it's a little-used street with no nearby crossing or intersection and there are no cars around. Technically it would be jaywalking for me to walk directly to my neighbor's house across the street. But it's 1/4 mile to the intersection at the end of the road, and there are only five families past us before it's shorter to go the other way, so virtually no traffic, ever, and when there is it's well visible and slow-moving. That I would cross here does not mean I have no room to stand against doing the same downtown, much less put me on equal footing with murderers.

edit: I may have been misunderstanding what "jaywalking" meant all this time. If so, my example fails but the principle remains.

[jackfaire]

There are areas where I don't consider Jaywalking laws to apply.

No crosswalks, traffic, etc

The places I am referring to are smack dab in the middle of the city dodging traffic. Yet I have heard people who I just watched dodge a car continue their conversation about how bad the crime in the city is. Oh and yes the car almost hit them.

Also other laws ignored because they are inconvenient to that person too.

[Gerrinson]

So far as jaywalking goes, I think the only time it should really be enforced is in cases where there are sidewalks every block or half block. In the summer, I often have to stop at the crosswalk, then stop 10 ft. later for some asshat that's too special to walk all the way to the crosswalk.

I believe it also applies to the morons that wait for the 'Do Not Walk' sign before they start crossing. I watched it this summer, some idiot on her cell waiting through 'Walk' and flashing 'Do Not Walk' until the crossing light was solid 'Do Not Walk' and traffic got the green light. THEN she steps out into the street and dawdles in the middle of the lane to chit chat on her phone. Of course, I'd still be at fault if I made her a hood ornament.

I can't say I wasn't momentarily tempted...

[Cats]

If you cross a street somewhere when there is no traffic in sight (and no crosswalk), unles it's someplace illegal for pedestrians (like a highway), technically, it is not jaywalking. Jaywalking is when you cross the street without yielding to drivers unless you're in a crosswalk and have the walk signal (or equivalent). You can't be jaywalking if there are no drivers on the road in sight to yield to. Drivers in my town do not like to yeild to pedestrians (even in a signaled crosswalk where it is illegal to do anything but let the pedestrians cross until the signal is off), so I often have to wait until there is a big enough break in traffic where I can make a run for it.

So yes, when you get down to what jaywalking actually IS, I do think it's wrong to do so.



Some laws are incredibly stupid and outdated and just need to be crossed off the books though, without going through all that red tape (if no one follows them and they serve no purpose and aren't being enforcfed, eff 'em). I'm talking about stupid stuff like having to bring a rifle to church or not being allowed to go to bed without a bath type stuff.

[Nyoibo]

In Aus, jaywalking is crossing a street at a point with no pedestrian crossing within a certain distance of a pedestrian crossing, I think 20 meters.

[jackfaire]

Not just jaywalking I mean any time people ignore laws.

Oh wait you mean I have to pay for that well nah I don't feel like it.

[HYHYBT]

Some laws are incredibly stupid and outdated and just need to be crossed off the books though, without going through all that red tape (if no one follows them and they serve no purpose and aren't being enforcfed, eff 'em). I'm talking about stupid stuff like having to bring a rifle to church or not being allowed to go to bed without a bath type stuff.

Most of those that you hear about either are fictional or are an interpretation or extrapolation away from the plain intent. Take Texas's ban on marriage, for instance: it took a while, but someone finally pointed out that, as worded, they've banned *all* marriages, though of course nobody would ever enforce it that way.

Not just jaywalking I mean any time people ignore laws.

It would have to be the same law. It just doesn't make sense to say that, for example, since I was driving five miles over the limit, I have no room to complain if my house is burgled.

[jackfaire]

It would have to be the same law. It just doesn't make sense to say that, for example, since I was driving five miles over the limit, I have no room to complain if my house is burgled.

No it wouldn't in my mind. You can't expect the law to protect you if your unwilling to follow the law. Why should anyone else follow laws if you won't.

It makes sense to say that "Sense I refused to obey a law that inconveniences me I guess I can't complain because someone else chose to do the same."

[powerboy]

It makes sense to say that "Sense I refused to obey a law that inconveniences me I guess I can't complain because someone else chose to do the same."

But that doesn't make any sense. If that happened to you. Say you were going over the speed limit by one mile. Then you got out at the store. While in the store someone broke into you car. Would you call the cops or not? By your logic, you wouldn't. And I just cannot buy that

[jackfaire]

But that doesn't make any sense. If that happened to you. Say you were going over the speed limit by one mile. Then you got out at the store. While in the store someone broke into you car. Would you call the cops or not? By your logic, you wouldn't. And I just cannot buy that

No by my logic I wouldn't have been going over the speed limit by one mile.

My problem is the people I see continuously break laws then the instant a crime is broken that makes them the victim they get all pissed off and indignant shouting out, "but I am a law abiding citizen"

To which I want to respond, "So you pirated the entire Kelly Clarkson collection but that was okay?"

[Greenday]

It's not such a black and white matter. Somethings are just not a big deal. I went five miles over the speed limit. I jaywalked. I drank in my apartment on a dry campus. No one gets harmed so I don't see why me breaking laws which harm no one means I shouldn't be protected by laws that involve me getting harmed.

[jackfaire]

Okay so then obeying the law is unimportant and rather the important thing is to not get caught or avoid doing anything someone will report you for.

Seriously there are ways to change the laws. I feel confused by the concept of "I can ignore this set of laws but this set over here is important."

Then why not work to get the set you feel you can ignore repealed.

You like going 5 miles over the speed limit then get it moved up 5 miles or abolished as a whole.

And not all the laws people break are victimless. I have heard people says, "But the graffiti was very artistic" then went on a diatribe about how the business owner should be grateful and even pay the tagger for the work.

So to help my confusion is there a list somewhere of laws I can safely ignore because a jury of my peers would say that I did not in fact commit a crime?

[Greenday]

I just don't see how certain victimless crimes means no respect for any laws at all.

[jackfaire]

Because then the only laws that people are respecting are the ones that happen to be convenient for them, "I was robbed the law should punish him"

"I am pirating movies but it's okay because I can't afford to go to the theater and I don't want to buy it if it sucks"