facebook convo regarding Haiti

[smileyeagle1021]

Posted with Blas's permission
Blas: Shame on you America: the only country where we have homeless without shelter, children going to bed without eating, elderly going without needed meds, and mentally ill without treatment - yet we have a benefit for the people of Haiti on 12 TV stations. 99% of people won't have the guts to copy and repost this Sorry - but it's true!
Smiley:I love how one of my friends who posted this was called a racist for wanting to help Americans first... when really what this is saying is that we need to help Americans TOO.
Blas:One of my brother's friends called this status "Disgusting". It's too shameful, isn't it?
Other Friend:No its the TRUTH and many people can't handle that!
Smiley:Yeah, apparently it is more noble to help someone who lost their home to a natural disaster that no one has control over than to help someone who lost their home to a corrupt banker who set them up in a loan that the banker knew damned well would end up in foreclosure and was just hoping that the value would appreciate and they'd get the profit ... See morefrom the sale.
When I was looking to buy my place the banker I went through admitted that's what other bankers were doing, hoping that with the rising home values they could force people into foreclosure and make a profit off the sale, and if the person was able to actually keep up all the better.
Hell, right now the Haitians have something we don't... they have jobs being sent there... jobs that used to be held by Americans... who are now being told that they don't deserve our help because they were born here and not in a disaster prone island.
And the real disgrace, we are more willing to help Port Au Prince than New Orleans. There is nothing wrong with helping the Haitians (I've donated to the relief effort), but let's not sugar coat it... most people are donating to ease their guilt over being born into a first world nation, rather than a third world nation.
Blas: Holy shit Smiley.....
Smiley: ... I've already had this debate with one of my neighbors who tried to pull the, "well true Americans don't need help from others" line.



So, what's the take here?
Are Americans a bit hypocritical being willing to donate without second thought to those suffering from a disaster in a different country when they aren't willing to help those who have suffered natural disaster or man made malice in their own country?

[blas87]

Thanks Smiley

I'd just like to post a disclaimer that I did not originally start that status, it's a copy/paste that has been floating around Facebook for a few days now, just for those of you who don't Facebook or haven't logged on lately.

[smileyeagle1021]

I should have added that disclaimer... thanks for pointing that out Blas

[AdminAssistant]

There is an infrastructure to help Americans in need. Welfare, food stamps, disablility, HUD, unemployment, etc. Mortgage companies are bending over backwards, in many cases, to keep people in their homes.* A handful of people do slip through the cracks, and that's unfortunate.

That does not compare to millions of people losing their homes, or being afraid to stay in their homes, not having food or water, having to fear looters, NO government of any kind, and so on and so forth. This whole "We should help Americans first!" crap smacks of nationalism, elitism, and a general attitude of uninvolvement. Perhaps it's just because I prefer to think of myself as a member of a global community and not one country, but I think all citizens of the world should be seen as equals and deserve our help. And, IMO, a Haitian with no food, water, or shelter deserves that help more than a laid-off American who can't make their SUV payment.

*At least, the company that the SO works as a mortgage specialist for is. YMMV

[Boozy]

I think people who want to "help Americans first" are underestimating the devastation in Haiti.

Mass starvation is a serious possibility in Haiti; not so in America. Thousands of bodies are being dumped into mass graves; not so in America. Surgeries are routinely being performed without the use of anesthetic and antibiotics; not so in America. And so on....

[Savannah]

I don't think this is about helping people in the US first. I think this is about helping people in the US at all.

The way I see it going currently, we are going to give to Haiti and then go back to ignoring our own problems which, while not as severe as as those in Haiti, are still huge. (And, AdminAssistant, where I live it's not just a handful of people slipping through the cracks, it's a lot of people.)

I wouldn't call it hypocritical, but I do think that we in the US are unwilling to admit that we have problems because we like to think of ourselves as world leaders. Helping another nation dealing with a natural disaster fits with that view. Admitting that many people are homeless because we can't be bothered to have a medical system that provides them with psychiatric drugs does not.

[AdminAssistant]

But there are other ways to fix the problems in America that people are fighting. Comprehensive welfare reform and a single-payer health insurance system being just a couple of ways that would be more beneficial in the long term than throwing money at the problem. For large scale issues, we have a legislature that we can use to fix large problems. Haiti doesn't have that luxury.

[jackfaire]

Certain conditions have to be met to qualify for any government assistance in this country. Doesn't matter if your in trouble if you don't meet those.

If your a male with no children that makes more than a certain amount of money and have to choose between food or insurance then you don't qualify for assistance. If your even 100 dollars over the limit it doesn't matter how much debt you have.

[blas87]

Last Friday night, I saw a newsbrief that was similar to Hurricane Katrina.

A man screaming that NO ONE is coming to help, NOTHING is being done.

Fuck if there isn't. Every commercial break there is a number I can text to donate $10, every fucking celebrity there is was on that damn telethon, my homepage tells me to donate to Haiti....

There has been help. You want to kick and scream that it's not enough? Ok, I'll go back to worrying about my own people who are holding their own until help comes for their hunger or cold in the night.

[smileyeagle1021]

Certain conditions have to be met to qualify for any government assistance in this country. Doesn't matter if your in trouble if you don't meet those.

If your a male with no children that makes more than a certain amount of money and have to choose between food or insurance then you don't qualify for assistance. If your even 100 dollars over the limit it doesn't matter how much debt you have.

You have no idea how true that is... because I am a college student (using a college fund that can ONLY be used for educational expenses) I am ineligible for ALL government assistance. In the state of Utah being enrolled in any educational institute makes you automatically ineligible. The only thing I'd be eligible for is Pell Grants... oh no I'm not, because my mother makes too much money... of course the fact that she spends most of her money on medical expenses isn't factored in.
I thank God that I can make it through, because if I fall behind anywhere I have NO backup except living on the goodwill of relatives or strangers.

And let's not try to forget the response to Katrina... it was nowhere near as large as the response that we are seeing for Haiti. Were there not thousands of homeless and people without food and water in New Orleans? Oh yeah, they were Americans so they could obviously handle it... which explains why years later New Orleans is STILL rebuilding...

[Greenday]

So wait, their are millions of people without health care, a meal a day on a good day, homeless, no running water, electricity, etc. etc. They are ignored on a daily basis. But I'm a heartless bastard because I think of the people RIGHT in front of me that are starving and homeless with no health care, but not the people thousands of miles away? Right...

[draggar]

Mortgage companies are bending over backwards, in many cases, to keep people in their homes.

Sorry, I don't see this. I called my mortgage company for MONTHS and they flat out refused to help us even though my wife hasn't had a job since June, 2008 and our house is now worth roughly 40% of what our outstanding balance is on our home.

After 6 years of on-time payments they're refusing to give me a hand in my time of need. It seems like I'd be better off not paying my mortgage and buying an RV and living out of that.


As for helping Haiti - it's a double edged sword. Just like our politicians (in the USA) our neighbors can be bought, too. If we don't help them then why would they side with us when situations pop up? Look at how quickly China got people in there - who do you think Haiti might side with if asked for international support? It's also a PR move - look how quickly we can help out someone else.

Yet the millions / billions we're sending to Haiti for rescue efforts and rebuilding could be spent here to help support our own nation. Hell, .000001% of our (total) stimulous package would allow me to pay off our remaining balance on our mortgage and go back to school to improve myself and make myself more productive.

Don't forget also what the US government gives illegal / undocumented immigrants.

People keep comparing New Orleans. I hope our government learned a lot after New Orleans (but I don't think it learned much before Wilma came blowing over me - I didn't see any FEMA and reports were that they never showed up where and when they said that they would).

In 2004 after the Indonesian tsunami the US first pledged $30 million in aid. While that sounds like a lot that would have been a drop in the bucket. We spend more on a stadium. Luckily, outcry made the US rasie it to a much higher #.

It's a learning process that no one can prepare for.

[HYHYBT]

Sorry, no, the "we can't help out in a true disaster because things aren't perfect at home" argument doesn't wash. And there was quite a lot of help sent to New Orleans; perhaps not enough, and definitely misapplied, but that's a different matter.

[guywithashovel]

Every single time there is a disaster like the one in Haiti, a bunch of blowhards rant about how "we're only helping them because most of them are black" or "charities are only sending them aid because it's a different country." I'm not saying this applies to the OP, but it does apply to a lot of people here.

As for the insinuation that we help other people in other countries before helping our own citizens, there is a fair amount of help here in the US for those in need. Ironically, though, most of the people making the above accusations say that Americans in hard times should just "pull themselves up by their bootstraps," Why are they all the sudden interested in helping them now that a disaster happened in another country? .

[Nyoibo]

A man screaming that NO ONE is coming to help, NOTHING is being done.

Fuck if there isn't. Every commercial break there is a number I can text to donate $10, every fucking celebrity there is was on that damn telethon, my homepage tells me to donate to Haiti.....

See, that just makes me stop and wonder how much of this money and aid that is raised by private organisations is actually making it to where it's supposed to be going.