facebook convo regarding Haiti

[Slytovhand]

A: Vagabond, you're thinking is distorted(re:

How many of those countries would be willing to help America out if a Natural Disaster struck America? Fires, hurricanes, floods, landslides, blizzards and droughts, volcanic eruptions, etc.
I could only think of maybe a small handful of countries that either would help, or would even bother to offer condolences. The ones that pop into my mind are Canada, UK, Australia and sometimes New Zealand... the (primarily) English speaking nations/countries.

). Sure, many of the countries that suffer these disasters aren't actually in a position to be able to help out much, but they still do - be it in volunteers, and other help when they can. Also, all the countries in Europe, Russia, Middle East (probably contrary to popular belief!), African nations, etc, Asia, etc etc. Probably the only place that help isn't likely to come from would be the Antarctic... Penguins don't have TV to know about USA disasters....

B: Rapscallion - go back 60 or 70 years (for the most recent version that I'm thinking of). Europe split between Communist nasty evil oppressive Russia, and good God-fearing freedom-loving USA... the US spent millions of dollars on those countries willing to go capitalist rather than communist... and ignored the communist countries.

Also, in Africa, it's a little rare for a donation of help when needed to be cost-free. It's normally been "we will help you, but you will pay us back later... hehehehe...". A little less now, given greater communications and publicity, we have 'private' organisations in a better position to bypass such crap - Red Cross, MSF, etc etc. If it was left to a government organisation, no way would it be given 'freely'. (I wonder how it would go down if it went the other way... such as if Ethiopia said to the US when Katrina hit "We'll send you X amount in cash, if you accept trade agreement Z" - you know - extortion)

Which brings us to the OP... Americans give to Americans through the tax system. It's a government organisation. A better response to the OP would be - how much is donated to the Salvation Armym, St Vinnies, and other private organisations by those saying 'give to America first'.

As has been pointed out, Haiti is just the most recent, and acute. People have been living in natural disaster areas for years and decades - how much to people still give to them - or do they need a celebrity to constantly remind them on TV 24/7?


TBH, in the long run, the USA (and other 'developed' countries) would be much better off helping themselves first - and then turning around to help others in need.. because they'd be in a far better position to do so. If you have a country with (making numbers up here, to demonstrate the point) 1 million people on welfare - and those 1 million people are able to get off welfare and get a good income, then those 1 million are then able to donate AND the government could give more aid as well....

But then - lots of solutions are easy to talk about......

[Boozy]

How many of those countries would be willing to help America out if a Natural Disaster struck America? Fires, hurricanes, floods, landslides, blizzards and droughts, volcanic eruptions, etc.
I could only think of maybe a small handful of countries that either would help, or would even bother to offer condolences. The ones that pop into my mind are Canada, UK, Australia and sometimes New Zealand... the (primarily) English speaking nations/countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna...ricane_Katrina

Poor countries donated money to the wealthiest country on earth following Katrina, and they did it because it was the right thing to do.

Please note that both Maldives and Sri Lanka pledged money despite the fact that they had not even come close to recovering from the tragedy of the tsunami.

[Skelly]

why isn't anyone helping people in Africa? I mean, with all the civil wars, famines, and other disasters over there, nobody lifts a finger.

Lolwut? $50 billion per year and Odin alone knows how many people from the rest of the world going there to build schools, drill for water, construct roads, teach, do doctoring and Odin knows what else, and you say we aren't helping?
The real issue comes from too MUCH help - we flood the African continent with aid in the form of food, clothes, mosquito nets and Odin knows what else, which is a sure way to ass-rape the local industry when can't compete with the free stuff that everyone just got handed to them, and the guy making mosquito nets, or the farmers, just got fucked over really good and hard.

[AdminAssistant]

There are a few major issues in Africa that mainly stem from horrificly corrupt governments and nobody doing anything to permanently help the people there. Sure, they'll throw aid at Africa, but very few are doing anything to help these people start their own economies. I had a student from Cameroon who lamented that no one looks at African nations as equals, that the Western world tends to see Africa as, "those poor people who need our help. Quick, a telethon!" He said, "We have oil, we have aluminum, we have so many resources, but no one is doing anything. There's no trade." So, there's that.

As Boozy has said, other countries did help us and they will do so again if another natural disaster hits our country. I really don't understand this egotistical, isolationist attitude that so many Americans have. I don't get it.

[draggar]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna...ricane_Katrina

Poor countries donated money to the wealthiest country on earth following Katrina, and they did it because it was the right thing to do.

I'm glad someone pointed out Katrina before I did.

[smileyeagle1021]

I really don't understand this egotistical, isolationist attitude that so many Americans have. I don't get it.

Neither do I. Especially when I hear people say things like "it is our moral obligation as citizens of the greatest nation on Earth to help those in lesser countries"
Umm... pardon... shouldn't it be a moral obligation to help ANYONE who is less fortunate than ourselves, doubtless of political boundaries? I've donated what I could afford (which granted isn't that much) to the Haiti relief effort, but I didn't do it out of some egotistical world view that it is my obligation as an American but because helping them was the right thing to do.

[draggar]

I really don't understand this egotistical, isolationist attitude that so many Americans have. I don't get it.

Neither do I. Especially when I hear people say things like "it is our moral obligation as citizens of the greatest nation on Earth to help those in lesser countries"

You forgot elitist.

I don't know why but I've seen it first hand in trips into other countries. I've seen Americans ask the most ignorant questions possible (i.e. On the island of Belize, do you have schools and hospitals? - There should be hand rails on these old (Mayan) ruins.)

To many people, unless it affects them it's not important.

[smileyeagle1021]

You forgot elitist.

I don't know why but I've seen it first hand in trips into other countries. I've seen Americans ask the most ignorant questions possible .

Other countries? You think they need to go to other countries to ask stupid questions?
I can remember being 10 and going to Disneyland, I was wearing a shirt from my school promoting the fact that it had received a presidential merit award for quality teaching. Someone asked my mom if there were really schools in Nevada
Working in the hotel I heard people all the time asking questions like "is it really illegal to work on Sunday in Utah" (they were checking in on a Sunday... I guess what I was doing didn't count as work...)

[jackfaire]

Near as I can tell the only people saying, "Fuck the other countries," is the people saying that attitude is bad.

Everyone else is saying, "Let's help the other countries but don't forget people in our own country need our help too."

Everyday that I don't give to charity I look like an arrogant isolationist asshole because of course with my having a job and making money I should be giving 70% away to other people and only keeping 30% to myself.

That seems to be a lot of people's attitude that I am arrogant if I dare have any self interest.

Yes if we are rushing to the aid of another country or see people clamoring in the streets that our government should improve the living conditions of a country we have no control over I am going to wonder what about the homeless guy who needs a good meal you walked by on your way to this protest.

The people that can afford to and do rush to the aid of other countries in trouble are to be commended. The ones who refuse to do the same for their neighbors or as they like to say, "Those arrogant Americans"(while forgetting they are one) are not better people than me.

If anything I consider them to be worse.

[telecom_goddess]

Do you truly believe that mass starvation is happening in the US?

I think you may be confusing hunger (a chronic issue) with death due to an inability to locate food.

There are lots of homeless people in this country to die as a result of lack of food, being forced to eat garbage, and disease resulting from lack of nutrition. That counts in my book.

[blas87]

I'm not an egotistical ass or an isolationist.

What was that on the news yesterday, over $300 million already spent on Haiti?

How could that have been spent to help feed and shelter and clothe homeless and poor Americans?

[daleduke17]

Comprehensive welfare reform and a single-payer health insurance system being just a couple of ways that would be more beneficial in the long term

Fixed it for you. Single payer health insurance is NOT the way to go.

Last Friday night, I saw a newsbrief that was similar to Hurricane Katrina.

A man screaming that NO ONE is coming to help, NOTHING is being done.

Fuck if there isn't. Every commercial break there is a number I can text to donate $10, every fucking celebrity there is was on that damn telethon, my homepage tells me to donate to Haiti....

There has been help. You want to kick and scream that it's not enough? Ok, I'll go back to worrying about my own people who are holding their own until help comes for their hunger or cold in the night.

Then the United States, Canada, Israel and everyone else can pack the fuck up and head home then, right?

Is there a telethon on most of the major networks for US Citizens devastated by hurricanes, earthquakes or wildfires? No. 9/11, Katrina and some of the more recent wildfires in CA did the US really show there was help from the international community.

When Malaysia had the tsunami, their government said no to foreign help. Every foreign aid body should have turned the fuck around and left. No, the US and others did everything but bribe the Malay government to allow help into the country. The Malay government said they could handle it. We should have left.

Haitians are saying there isn't help. Let's just pack up and leave then. They'll figure it out.

My thought is: we can't help others if we can't even help ourselves. The US needs to back away from helping every country who needs it for one or two years and save some money up to help LEGAL US citizens first.

[Nyoibo]

The difference in this case is in the US the infrastructure exists to help people to an extent, in places like Haiti the infrastructure has been destroyed so there is nothing left to support them.

That's the main difference between a disaster and chronic conditions.

[telecom_goddess]

The difference in this case is in the US the infrastructure exists to help people to an extent, in places like Haiti the infrastructure has been destroyed so there is nothing left to support them.

That's the main difference between a disaster and chronic conditions.

but we need to fix our chronic conditions before we jump in and spend a whole bunch of money elsewhere. the money is spread so unfairly...with some people having more than they know what do with (and for some pretty dumb reasons) and the rest having to struggle to pay the bills/rent/etc every month, or in a situation where they don't have a home and medical care and food like mentioned before.

[BlaqueKatt]

Someone mentioned an infrastructure before that's in place...and it's over worked, understaffed, shelters are overcrowded, everyone's budget is being cut.

my "city" is not that large(population 231,916)-we have 4 homeless shelters(only one takes women)-each homeless person has 30 days per calender year that they can spend in a shelter, and the shelters are run by a coalition of churches so if you stay in "shelter 1" for 5 days and "shelter 2 for 5 days you only have 20 days left for the entire year. The waiting list for county mental health services was over 9 months-now they clear the list every month(just erase everyone that didn't get in that month) and you have to reapply every month, and hope you make the cut-however the waiting list for free medication to treat mental illness is still over two years long.