Secuity guys aren't allowed to help teen getting beat down....

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100211/...tunnel_beating

I can't say I agree with the persons bank teller analogy. Of course bank tellers are supposed to do nothing and hand over the cash, but these are SECURITY GUARDS. They're supposed to be trained to intervene and stop disrupting behavior.

What kind of security people have a policy that doesn't allow them to do ANYTHING when someone is clearly in distress?

[Wingates_Hellsing]

The bank teller analogy is just stupid. We're talking about security guards, hired to make the place safe for employees and customers alike. If we're talking about a janitor not intervening, I'd get it, but that's obviously not the case.

And, unarmed? as in completely and totally unarmed? no pepper spray? or anything? Doesn't strike me as conducive to keeping the place, you know, secure...

I find the sheriff's second statement quite annoying. Apparently, there's no such thing as self-defense (which includes the defense of others) anymore, and we should all cower in the corner and hope for the cops to come should anything happen. I guess it's getting to be a massive cliche for me but damn it to hell; could we either A) Get the police force to protect us better or B) help or at least allow people to defend them freaking selves?

I wouldn't mind relying on the cops as much as I do if there weren't so many examples of lackluster performance...

[elsporko]

These guards had no obligation to break up the fight, no means to break up the fight, and no training on how to break up the fight. Intervening could have resulted in being fired, sued, or possibly injured. The fault lies in their superiors for the policies the guards had to follow. If I was in that situation I would have done the same thing and so would all of you.

[Nyoibo]

These guards had no obligation to break up the fight, no means to break up the fight, and no training on how to break up the fight.

If 3 guys can't break up a fight between 2 teenage girls then they picked the wrong career.

Intervening could have resulted in being fired, sued, or possibly injured.

God forbid a security guard gets into a possibly mildly dangerous situation.

The fault lies in their superiors for the policies the guards had to follow.

That I will however agree with.

If I was in that situation I would have done the same thing and so would all of you.

No, actually I wouldn't and haven't in those situations.


These guys need to stop being called security guards given that they neither secure nor guard.

[elsporko]

In that story it doesn't give a number but in another I saw it said there was a group of ten teenagers, boys and girls.

So we have a situation where untrained unarmed security guards are suppose to fight off a gang that out numbers them, may be armed, and likely in better physical shape then they are. That's an absurd request. These guards were never even expected to intervene, their only duty is to report problems, which they did.

[Vagabond]

WTF!?!
There's just all sorts of wrong with this one.
1. Who hires 'security guards' that do not provide either security or guard anything?
2. What kind of security guard would have nothing with which to defend themselves or others. I'm sure even a Maglite flashlight would work (check with Wingates on that point...)
3. What adult just simply watches as 3 teenagers assault another, rob the victim, and then lets them walk away. I'm not even talking about being a security guard here, but a normal adult. Especially when someone is looking to you for help/assistance?
4. And if the 3 security guards can't at least delay the 3 attackers, to allow the victim time to escape.. what good are they?
5. If you wanted people to just 'observe and report', couldn't you say install video cameras. Oh, wait they had those... so what are those guards getting paid for again?
6. The policies are asinine.

7. Elsporko - you are incorrect. I would have felt obligated to intervene, or at least try. I usually don't carry a Maglite around with me, but I'm sure I could have at least delayed 3 teenagers.

[elsporko]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...en-female.html


According to this link the attackers consisted of two girls and eight other people. So the gaurds were heavily outnumbered. Plus these are people in their late teen and 20s. We don't know about the age or physical abilities of the security gaurds. Would you tell your mom to go fight three 20 year olds?


Another question, why aren't you upset at the police officers who refused to give the girl an escort to the bus station like she asked? This all could have been prevented if the trained and armed officers helped her out earlier. The untrained unarmed guards shouldn't be asked to do police work.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

WTF!?!
There's just all sorts of wrong with this one.
1. Who hires 'security guards' that do not provide either security or guard anything?
2. What kind of security guard would have nothing with which to defend themselves or others. I'm sure even a Maglite flashlight would work (check with Wingates on that point...)
3. What adult just simply watches as 3 teenagers assault another, rob the victim, and then lets them walk away. I'm not even talking about being a security guard here, but a normal adult. Especially when someone is looking to you for help/assistance?
4. And if the 3 security guards can't at least delay the 3 attackers, to allow the victim time to escape.. what good are they?
5. If you wanted people to just 'observe and report', couldn't you say install video cameras. Oh, wait they had those... so what are those guards getting paid for again?
6. The policies are asinine.

7. Elsporko - you are incorrect. I would have felt obligated to intervene, or at least try. I usually don't carry a Maglite around with me, but I'm sure I could have at least delayed 3 teenagers.

Even just one of those insanely bright tac-lights would usually be more than enough. People don't fight what they can't see, if they try, well, guess who's got the advantage. Otherwise is always helpful to have something to club someone with, for which Maglites fit the bill rather nicely. Failing that, I hear one can buy telescoping batons rather cheaply

I too would have felt obligated to intervene. The only reason I don't have anything (pepper spray, tazer, whatever) is because I don't currently go anywhere outside the county (a damn nice one). If I was going into DC at midnight, you could be sure I'd have bought something.

EDIT: We are, it was an integral part of my first post as well. They failed pretty hard though more understandably so, seeing as they actually did intervene in the incident during which they were present and threw the hooligans out at a different entrance. They should have done more, but that doesn't mean they did nothing. The security guards did nothing. Calling the cops for an ongoing instance is basically useless, response time, while better than ever, is still too long to make a difference then and there.

[Vagabond]

Wingates - I was thinking of those really nice 3 to 5 lb maglites that take 2 - 4 DD cell batteries. The ones that get mistaken for mini baseball bats...

Elsporko - 3 adult males can't at least delay 8 teenage males & 2 teenage females?
Also, thanks for bringing my mother into this.
So, to clarify this point: 1. My mother isn't a security guard. And 2. I do believe that she could at least delay 10 teenagers and if not, make them seriously question their actions. (My mother believed in the 'spare the rod, spoil the child' method of child-rearing that usually involved a 2x4...)

I didn't read about the police officers who didn't escort her like she asked. My bad. Yes, they should have. The articles I read merely skimmed over that fact.

[elsporko]

The security guards did as much as they could. If they intervened they risked injury, their jobs, being sued, being arrested, or even being killed if one of the attackers was carrying a weapon or got in a lucky hit. Its nice that you're all able to talk about how big of heros you are while your safe at home but when something like that is actually happening its not so easy to just get in the middle.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Wingates - I was thinking of those really nice 3 to 5 lb maglites that take 2 - 4 DD cell batteries. The ones that get mistaken for mini baseball bats...

Elsporko - 3 adult males can't at least delay 8 teenage males & 2 teenage females?
Also, thanks for bringing my mother into this.
So, to clarify this point: 1. My mother isn't a security guard. And 2. I do believe that she could at least delay 10 teenagers and if not, make them seriously question their actions. (My mother believed in the 'spare the rod, spoil the child' method of child-rearing that usually involved a 2x4...)

I didn't read about the police officers who didn't escort her like she asked. My bad. Yes, they should have. The articles I read merely skimmed over that fact.

Yeah, I wasn't familiar with the brand specifically so I looked it up and edited my post

Also, it looked to me that the majority of those punks were just standing around, not even all that nearby at the beginning. What I do see is one skinny girl kicking the shit out of another, and three decent-sized security guards just fuking, standing there... useless...

The security guards did as much as they could. If they intervened they risked injury, their jobs, being sued, being arrested, or even being killed if one of the attackers was carrying a weapon or got in a lucky hit. Its nice that you're all able to talk about how big of heros you are while your safe at home but when something like that is actually happening its not so easy to just get in the middle.

Fired for doing what? sued for what?

You talking as if breaking up what was a fight between to girls (one sided at that) is some sort of special operations feat. Too many people are paralyzed with shitting themselves fear over 'if they had a weapon'. That's if, and I highly doubt it. You seem to have wonderful skill in blowing things out of proportion, elsporko, tell me exactly how subduing a skinny teenage girl is 'being a hero'

[Vagabond]

I could possibly understand risking being sued. That would not be good.
Risking their jobs, when their company may not back them, that would also not be good. Risking injury, possibly killed - if you are a guard that is part of your job description as far as I'm concerned. You are there to guard something that is worth guarding. I am, admittedly, biased on that as I'm in the military.

I'm not talking about starting a fight, I've only mentioned at least delaying the attackers so the victim could have gotten away from the attackers. File this under their policy of "close observation for reporting". Unlike the one guard who was apparently looking away while this was happening.

Safe at home? and where are you currently?

I know I've broken up possible situations before. Possibly not an actual attack, but allowed people to escape being followed/stalked by people not getting the hint before.

I'm not saying I'm a hero - just a person who tried to be helpful.

[elsporko]

That is not part of their job description, in fact intervening goes directly against company policy.

Also you are military. You have this little thing called training, so you are apprently fine with fighting off ten people, but the untrained guards evidently were not. They had good reasons to not intervene.

[Vagabond]

Yes, and I've said before the policy is stupid. If they just wanted people to observe and report - they can have video cameras for that.

While, yes, I'm in the military, I don't get training to fight off ten people.

Other than their company's policy, I do not see/understand/comprehend their 'good reasons' for not intervening.

[elsporko]

How about being scared of being killed by ten violent people.