People Required to Clear the Sidewalks in Front of Their Homes

[Shangri-laschild]

Take responsibility and arrange for a neighbor/friend/relative to do it?

And if you have no friends or relatives in town and don't get along with your neighbors? It's not always so simple.

Also, just because someone keeps talking about how they disagree with the law does not mean they don't shovel. Anti law doesn't equal anti shovel. I agree that there shouldn't be a law. I also think it's common curtesy to shovel your walks so that people can walk on them easier. Those are two different subjects though. And it does make a difference whether or not it's your property. In this instance, the law is stating that you have to take care of someone else's property but only for this one thing. You have to shovel it but you have no rights to make any other desicions about it.

Of course, it's the plowed walkways that I keep slipping and getting injured on, not the unplowed ones.

[Tanasi]

And if you have no friends or relatives in town and don't get along with your neighbors? It's not always so simple.

Also, just because someone keeps talking about how they disagree with the law does not mean they don't shovel. Anti law doesn't equal anti shovel. I agree that there shouldn't be a law. I also think it's common curtesy to shovel your walks so that people can walk on them easier. Those are two different subjects though. And it does make a difference whether or not it's your property. In this instance, the law is stating that you have to take care of someone else's property but only for this one thing. You have to shovel it but you have no rights to make any other desicions about it.

Of course, it's the plowed walkways that I keep slipping and getting injured on, not the unplowed ones.

Then why isn't the burden equally shared??? Why is the burden only put upon the property owners? Why aren't tenents in apartments equally burdened? If shoveling is going to be required then everyone should pitch in as it isn't fair to single out certain folks simply because they own a little property.
Question in places where folks park on the street are those folks required to clear their parking spaces??? If not why not???

[Boozy]

Why aren't tenents in apartments equally burdened?

But they are. Tenants pay rent, a portion of which goes towards grounds maintenance.

When I lived in an apartment, the property management company cleared the sidewalks around the building. They hired a groundskeeping service to do it, which was paid for with part of the rent we paid.

I suppose they could have knocked a little off our rent if the tenants all took turns shovelling, but that's a rather unwieldy solution. Easier to just factor in the cost of groundskeeping with our rent.

Edited to add: For those who assume that all shoveling by-laws are terribly unfair to the infirm and/or impoverished, I suggest actually looking at your community's by-laws. In my municipality, fines are not levied against those with medical issues preventing them from clearing their walks. They are instead referrred to several community support groups, who take care of snow clearing for no charge.

Shovelling by-laws are a nice way to keep sidewalks safe for pedestrians while keeping property taxes as low as possible.

[Shangri-laschild]

Then why isn't the burden equally shared??? Why is the burden only put upon the property owners? Why aren't tenents in apartments equally burdened? If shoveling is going to be required then everyone should pitch in as it isn't fair to single out certain folks simply because they own a little property.
Question in places where folks park on the street are those folks required to clear their parking spaces??? If not why not???

Again, I wasn't saying I thought it should be a law. Though there are stranger laws on shoveling. From what I understand, where my friend's mom lives, if you shovel the snow on your walk and someone slips, you are open to a law suit. If you didn't shovel, you aren't. I'm not quite sure why it's so odd like that except for maybe that shoveling uncovers the ice, though it's still slippery even without shoveling so....

As far as people who park on the street, they don't have to clear their spaces, no but they also often get screwed when the streets are plowed and they can't get their cars out as well.

[Tanasi]

Around here we so seldom get snow shoveling really isn't thought of. Parking on the road for the most part isn't allowed so plowing usually isn't a problem. The last few years the state, county and city have been putting down a brine solution on the main roads up to a few days before snow is expected. It dries and if there's not a rain beforehand it does a fairly good job of keeping the roads clear. They've also been using a beet juice solution haven't heard how that's working out.
Most cities and counties didn't even plow roads until the 80's because they didn't have the budget for it. Since then they buy lots of salt and put the blades and salt casters on the dump trucks and have at it. In March 93 we got over 20 inches of snow overnight. I spent the next two days moving snow with my tractors. I did it because I knew no one else had the equipment and the county was over whelmed with just the main roads I burned nearly 50 gallons of diesel and that doesn't count what we burned in the backup genny after the power went out and stayed out for 5 days.
You yankeefolk and cannukistanies can have the snow, I'd just as soon that it stayed away. I still ain't shoveling any walks even around my house, everything in the house and within 500 feet of the house is women's work.

[DesignFox]

<snip>

Shovelling by-laws are a nice way to keep sidewalks safe for pedestrians while keeping property taxes as low as possible.

Bingo. Don't know what is so freakin' hard to understand about this.

We wouldn't need ANY laws if people weren't so goddamn selfish. Unfortunately, that's the way it is. Which is why these by-laws exist. Considering most towns probably only enforce it in the most extreme of scenarios, I don't really understand what anyone has to bitch about.

If the city charged to do it, everyone would be bitching about that, too. Can't win.

I'd rather have it this way.

[daleduke17]

Bingo. Don't know what is so freakin' hard to understand about this.

We wouldn't need ANY laws if people weren't so goddamn selfish. Unfortunately, that's the way it is. Which is why these by-laws exist. Considering most towns probably only enforce it in the most extreme of scenarios, I don't really understand what anyone has to bitch about.

If the city charged to do it, everyone would be bitching about that, too. Can't win.

I'd rather have it this way.

To repeat it again: IT IS NOT OUR PROPERTY. Not our property = not our responsibility.

[AdminAssistant]

To repeat it again: IT IS NOT OUR PROPERTY. Not our property = not our responsibility.

Gah.

This is the attitude of most of the homeowners in my neighborhood. I just got the newsletter from the neighborhood organization and was infuriated by the attitudes of property owners. See, at least half the population of my town is either a student at or an employee of the University. A good many students live in my neighborhood because it is so close to campus, relatively cheap, and close to downtown (i.e. staggering distance from the bars). A lot of these students either don't have cars, or don't drive to campus, because parking is expensive and largely unavailable. There is a campus bus system, but there aren't a lot of stops in this part of town, because of the proximity of the university.

So, a lot of people just walk. Fine. However, at night, it's really scary, because this town has NO streetlights except at intersections. It's very very very dark at night, and lo and behold, most of the rapes and robberies that happen in town happen in this neighborhood. University student groups are pushing for a 'lightpath' that would go from campus to downtown. This would mean new, wider sidewalks (instead of the uneven brick in most places) and motion activated street lights. The homeowners are pitching a fit and refusing to accept the motion, because of "light pollution". What. The. Hell. They are refusing something that would be of benefit to, literally, hundreds of the town's residents and that would make this city safer, because they don't want to be inconvenienced. (These are the same people, btw, who will put Port-a-Potties on their property during football season and charge folks $5 to use the bathroom.)

Fact is, you are living around other people and you DO have a responsibility to them. A responsibility as a decent fucking human being. If you don't like city ordinances, find you a couple of acres out in the country and live there.

[DesignFox]

That argument could be applied to many areas of the community. In which case, many things could fall into disrepair. Well fuck it, it's not your property, right?

I just don't think this particular law is all that outrageous. Especially considering the tax dollars it saves by shifting responsibility away from the city. That being said, if any city were to be very strict about enforcing it, I would absolutely expect them to keep the walk in good repair (i.e. fixing bulges or dangerous cracks, etc.) But then, the onus is still on the property owners to actually MAKE THE CALL and tell the city it needs to be fixed.

We don't have sidewalks here, but we've had other problems we've had to call the township to fix. It may take a couple of phone calls, but shit gets done.

EDIT:
AdminAssistant: you bring up a lot of good points. I was still formulating my reply when you posted that.

[linguist]

That being said, if any city were to be very strict about enforcing it, I would absolutely expect them to keep the walk in good repair (i.e. fixing bulges or dangerous cracks, etc.) But then, the onus is still on the property owners to actually MAKE THE CALL and tell the city it needs to be fixed.

been there, done that. the city waited 6 weeks to even send someone out to look at it. 6 weeks after that, when nothing had been done still, i called and offered to make the repair myself, at my own expense. i was told if i did so i'd be fined for destroying city property (since a whole section of the sidewalk would have to be jackhammered up and removed to repair it). a few days later, they finally got around to sending a crew out to jackhammer the sidewalk up. then it started raining so the crew left without pouring a new slab. a few more weeks passed, and i still had no sidewalk, so i called up, and once again offered to pour it myself. once again i was told that was prohibited, as the sidewalk is city property. so you know what? fuck the city. if they're going to be so adamant about it being their property when it needs repair and i'm offering to do it myself, i'm going to refuse to have anything to do with maintaining it.

(btw i finally did get a new sidewalk--somewhere around 6 months after i'd made the initial call.)

If the city charged to do it, everyone would be bitching about that, too. Can't win.

the city does charge to maintain all public spaces, in the form of the property taxes i pay. if they'll reduce my taxes appropriately, i'd consider doing it myself, but somehow i don't think that's going to happen. would you do something yourself that you're already paying someone else to do?

[DesignFox]

linguist- don't know what to tell you there. I can understand your point. (although, I still think everyone should shovel their sidewalks) I also think your city should be held accountable for NOT fixing a reported problem...but I have no idea HOW you go about THAT.

[Boozy]

the city does charge to maintain all public spaces, in the form of the property taxes i pay. if they'll reduce my taxes appropriately, i'd consider doing it myself, but somehow i don't think that's going to happen. would you do something yourself that you're already paying someone else to do?

If you're referring to snow-clearing specifically, your thinking about this is backwards. Your taxes would go UP if the city had to suddenly start clearing every single residential sidewalk in the city. You are already getting a discount on your property taxes.

The cost of snow removal in my municipality averages about $4 million per year. If you were to add sidewalk shovelling (a slower job than street-clearing), I'd think we could safely add 50% to that budget.

[drunkenwildmage]

Our city law that says that your property line extends to the street, but the city has easement rights from about 3 feet to the street, so nothing can be planted, constructed, or otherwise placed in the easement unless it's grass, the sidewalk, your driveway, or your mailbox. I believe City code also stats that any new construction is required to have a side walk, and that the property owner is required to maintain the sidewalk, to city specs, at their(The owners) expense. It goes further stating that if the city has to do any work on the sidewalk to maintain it then the owner can (and often will)get billed by the city. The only exception is if a utility has to dig up to work on something buried, then that utility is responsible to return the area back to the way they found it. With all that being said, we have also have a city law that states that the property owner is responsible for clearing off snow on their property, and has 24 hours from the last "significant" snowfall to do it.

[kiwi]

Shovelling snow, it is a responsibility of home ownership. When you buy a house, you sign up for shit that you don't want to do but that you have to.

Suck it up. Life isn't fair so quit your boohooing, get off your arse and shovel the damn snow.
I loved that our town had a law stating that if someone fell on the footpath in front of your house and you hadn't cleared it properly they could sue your lazy gripping arse.

[DrFaroohk]

The point people keep missing is I don't own the sidewalk. Should I shovel my neighbors sidewalk too? I don't own that. how about the sidewalk down main street in front of the sandwich shop and the discount store? I don't own any of those properties either. Might as well shovel them!

Easy solutions: People who shovel their sidewalks get paid (or get a tax break).

Or: Give people ownership of the sidewalk. It's my sidewalk now, fine I'll shovel it. I'll also paint graffity on it, and maybe put signs up nearby that say "GET OFF MY FUCKING SIDEWALK YOU LAZY ASS!!!!!"

Or: Fine. Go ahead and fine people. Just make sure you fine EVERYBODY, and not just pick on two or three people to make examples of them. Oh, too weak to do it? Hire someone. Can't hire someone? How much does it cost to shovel a fucking sidewalk?