People Required to Clear the Sidewalks in Front of Their Homes

[Boozy]

Easy solutions: People who shovel their sidewalks get paid (or get a tax break).

Oh my god. You people are killing me.

You DO get a tax break for shovelling the sidewalk. The cost of your property taxes would be exhorbitantly greater were it not for shovelling by-laws.

[DesignFox]

Oh my god. You people are killing me.

You DO get a tax break for shovelling the sidewalk. The cost of your property taxes would be exhorbitantly greater were it not for shovelling by-laws.

But they don't OWN it!!!!11!!!

I think DrunkenWildMage probably has it right that it's not so much who owns what as that the city probably has easement rights. It likely differs per city.

I've never heard such an outcry over shoveling before. I can only imagine what would happen if we made shoveling the city's responsibility. The cost would be exorbitant, and if the city can't get around to it, and is held liable for anyone who slips and falls...I shudder to think the field day LAWYERS would have with THAT and how it would affect everyone's property taxes....

I prefer the "if you are a lazy ass and don't shovel the sidewalk we fine you" route.

[Tanasi]

Well if we're going to make it fair then let's make it fair. Why is the burden put wholly upon property owners? Why isn't the burden equally born by all including renters afterall renters occupy the dwelling for the same reason as most owners? Come on renters get out and shovel the sidewalks or are you too fucking lazy? Oh you don't own the property too fucking bad get out and do you part or shut the fuck up. Now put your month were your mouth is.

[DesignFox]

Well if we're going to make it fair then let's make it fair. Why is the burden put wholly upon property owners? Why isn't the burden equally born by all including renters afterall renters occupy the dwelling for the same reason as most owners? Come on renters get out and shovel the sidewalks or are you too fucking lazy? Oh you don't own the property too fucking bad get out and do you part or shut the fuck up. Now put your month were your mouth is.

Well, I'd say in terms of the legal paperwork, it's a lot less leg work and more cost effective to hold the owner of the property responsible.

I'd say if your landlord wanted to, they could choose to hold you responsible. Either by charging you extra in the rent or including some sort of clause in the lease that states that you have to shovel.

Or, you could be like my SO and just do it to be a nice person. He quite obviously doesn't own his apartment building, but that doesn't stop him from helping with simple shoveling or landscaping. Needless to say, he has a good relationship with his landlord.

People are so stuck on what's "fair" or what their "rights" are that they seem to lose sight of the bigger picture. It drives me up the wall.

[AdminAssistant]

I pay rent to my landlord. Included in my rent are lawn maintenance and snow removal, among many other things. A point which I believe has already been covered in this thread.

Now put your month were your mouth is.

I think that's illegal in most states.

[Boozy]

Well if we're going to make it fair then let's make it fair. Why is the burden put wholly upon property owners? Why isn't the burden equally born by all including renters afterall renters occupy the dwelling for the same reason as most owners? Come on renters get out and shovel the sidewalks or are you too fucking lazy?

Seriously? This has already been addressed several times.

To quote myself from this thread:

Tenants pay rent, a portion of which goes towards grounds maintenance.

When I lived in an apartment, the property management company cleared the sidewalks around the building. They hired a groundskeeping service to do it, which was paid for with part of the rent we paid.

I suppose they could have knocked a little off our rent if the tenants all took turns shovelling, but that's a rather unwieldy solution. Easier to just factor in the cost of groundskeeping with our rent.

We are all responsible for keeping our little area of the city safe and traversable. Some people shovel themselves, some people pay for others to shovel, but everyone is expected to do their part.

Society simply could not exist if everyone had the attitude of "what's mine is mine and fuck everything and everyone else". Cooperation is the cornerstone of civilization.

[linguist]

I prefer the "if you are a lazy ass and don't shovel the sidewalk we fine you" route.

except that i've already been told that if i try to maintain the sidewalk i'll be fined. under a law such as this i'd be fined for not maintaining it. so which is it? am i only expected to maintain city property when it suits the city for me to do so? they can't have it both ways.

[DesignFox]

except that i've already been told that if i try to maintain the sidewalk i'll be fined. under a law such as this i'd be fined for not maintaining it. so which is it? am i only expected to maintain city property when it suits the city for me to do so? they can't have it both ways.

It could be that the construction has to be specific, or follow some sort of code. I don't know. That's the only thing I've been able to think of as I've mulled this over.

[elsporko]

I would imagine that if the city allowed somebody not connected to the city to do construction on sidewalks they would get in huge trouble with the union their workers belong to. Not to mention the liability if the person not connected to the city hurt themselves or did a poor job that caused somebody else to be injured.

Shoveling on the other hand is something they can let you do. That way it can get done right away without costing you a buttload of taxes.

[Tanasi]

Well I must said I'm not disappointed in the answers because it's a typical tennet answer. They want to bitch about things but when it comes to helping out "Oh that's part of my rent", "I don't own it so I shouldn't have to help", "I'll help if you pay me." Typical typical typical.
There are good tennets that do help and believe me landlords/owners love those folks and will generally go out of their way to return the favors. The rest well I'll get to you when I get to you, wanna bitch fine, I ain't listening but I do remember the complainers and you can damn well bet their rent will go up when the lease is up that's providing I'll even let you renew. Good tennets are rare, piss-poor tennets are a dime a dozen.

[AdminAssistant]

I'm a very good tenant. I don't make a lot of noise or mess, I keep the place clean, I pay my rent on time, etc. However, when my landlord has a maintenance man on staff whose job it is to shovel the sidewalks and parking lot AND who is paid with my rent money....why would I get out there and shovel? I am (indirectly) paying someone else to do it. If it were in my lease that I were responsible for the sidewalks, then I would shovel. But I'm not, so I don't. Homeowners that don't wish to shovel the walks can also pay someone to do it for them.

[Boozy]

and you can damn well bet their rent will go up when the lease is up that's providing I'll even let you renew.

That's completely acceptable.

Seriously, I think you're making the whole thing unnecessarily antagonistic. It should be treated as a basic contract negotiation.

I once lived in an apartment where the landlord said to us "If you take care of cutting the grass and shovelling the snow, the rent is X. If you would rather I hire a groundskeeper to do it, then the rent is Y."

We chose "x", but if we'd gone the other route, our landlord wouldn't have cared. He was making sure that the cost of the groundskeeping would have been covered in our rent.

The government is still going to hold the landlord ultimately responsible for the upkeep of the property, but that's because the government doesn't hold a contract with the tenants. Property rights and obligations are spelled out under the law and as such represent an agreement between the government and the property owner. Any transferring of those rights and/or obligations between property owner and tenant need to be spelled out in a legal document (the lease).