The Male/Female Wage Gap

[guywithashovel]

There are a few threads about feminism here at Fratching, and this issue has come up within those threads, but I thought it would be beneficial to branch out for this topic.

Right now, if I understand correctly, women are said to earn roughly seventy-six cents for every dollar a man makes. Obviously, this generates contempt amongst the feminist community. However, some critics argue that feminists who lament this pay gap aren't considering all the factors. For example, they say that this is because women often work fewer hours than men, men and women select different jobs, women take more time off work, women are more likely to take time off to care for family, etc. Essentially, critics say that comparisons of the pay that men receive versus the pay that women receive are apples to oranges comparisons because of the different ways that men and women "approach" (for lack of a better word) the labor force.

Are these criticisms valid?

[Vagabond]

I would like to know HOW they came up with that number/ratio.
See... you could argue that (I'm not good with math so please bear with me, and if my numbers are incorrect, please adjust/correct them, thanks)
If there are 100 men in the workforce and only 76 women in the workforce... all else being equal (same pay, same vacation, same benefits), you could easily say that women are only getting 76% of what the men are getting.
I would have to say, "well, duh, there are more men in the workforce, so that yes, they are getting, collectively, more pay."

One thing I've always hated about statistics, rarely is it mentioned HOW or what numbers they used to come up with them.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

That's what's fast becoming beautiful about the net, you can find complete studies and take a look

If it's anything except strictly hourly wage comparisons and bonuses (maybe) I wouldn't listen. While gender prejudice is best done away with, there is a general difference in the way men and women behave and that is bound to have substantial effect in even the largest of sample sizes. If women aren't taking overtime for whatever reason where men do, that's not bias, it's the way of things.

It's also important to remember that the wage gap is substantially smaller now than it was before. Progress has been made, and to say otherwise is basically BS.

I may be biased against the feminist movement, but I try to remember the 3 dozen or so worst examples I run into on a yearly basis aren't the average feminist. (I held the door open to be polite, but now that I know you don't want me to, have a nice slam-in-the-face...)

[Vagabond]

It's 0530, my google-fu is weak. *sorries*

[Wingates_Hellsing]

It's 0530, my google-fu is weak. *sorries*

Don't worry, the internets are strong with you

Besides, I hopped around a bit and couldn't find anything that didn't look hopelessly skewed and/or fake... more later I guess...

[Vagabond]

The internets are strong with me? Excellent! Did you measure my midi-chlorians? Or know that I visit www.knowyourmeme.com occasionally?
I'm afriad of /b/ 4chan though. Is that the darkside?

[Wingates_Hellsing]

The internets are strong with me? Excellent! Did you measure my midi-chlorians? Or know that I visit www.knowyourmeme.com occasionally?
I'm afriad of /b/ 4chan though. Is that the darkside?

It is, but fear not, they've been much weakened with their current war against the furrys and non-assholes...

You're midi-chlorians (countless as they are) speak to me of awesome music, and an incident involving an emo band and fire... but I am able to sense your raw google-fu and wiki-fu with my supreme internets power, derived from braving the crucible of rule34 and the occasional flurry of epic pwnage at MW2 and BFBC2. It has an auro of internets-compatible smarts and more than a little real-life kickassness

I'll have to check that site out

[Vagabond]

Wingates - I'm not with the FPS's, so no MW2 or BFBC2 for me.
*Doesn't everyone think the music they listen to is awesome? And then there's also the music they're ashamed to admit they like.
(The emo-band and fire incident is still under a court gag order )
*Real Life kick ass? Ummm.. I chose a job in the military that would keep me far from bombs and/or bullets. So real-life kickassery is down, however can I get a +1 for brains enough to NOT put myself in a life-threatening situation voluntarily? Whilst still serving?
* I don't want to mention the Crucible of Rule 34. Everyone's experience is... disturbing.

Yeah, www.knowyourmeme.com is interesting, informative and occasionally funny. I think you would particularly like the 'Courage Wolf' meme.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Wingates - I'm not with the FPS's, so no MW2 or BFBC2 for me.
*Doesn't everyone think the music they listen to is awesome? And then there's also the music they're ashamed to admit they like.
(The emo-band and fire incident is still under a court gag order )
*Real Life kick ass? Ummm.. I chose a job in the military that would keep me far from bombs and/or bullets. So real-life kickassery is down, however can I get a +1 for brains enough to NOT put myself in a life-threatening situation voluntarily? Whilst still serving?
* I don't want to mention the Crucible of Rule 34. Everyone's experience is... disturbing.

Yeah, www.knowyourmeme.com is interesting, informative and occasionally funny. I think you would particularly like the 'Courage Wolf' meme.

IMO, intelligent decision making is a form of kickass. so you get +2.5

[Vagabond]

Rock! *bows* thanks!
There's that and my Mom and Grandma ordered me to stay away from Bombs and Bullets. I fear them more than any Deity. They can whoop my butt now and not have to wait until an afterlife to do it.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Rock! *bows* thanks!
There's that and my Mom and Grandma ordered me to stay away from Bombs and Bullets. I fear them more than any Deity. They can whoop my butt now and not have to wait until an afterlife to do it.

I can understand that. My folks would probably ninja-assassinate me should I move forward with my plan to become an active concealed carrier once I hit 21, quite the feat given they're (and my own) physical limitations, still, I wouldn't put it past them

Besides, the marine recruiter informed me that my particular chronic condition precludes me from front-line or most service anyway, though I think he may have been BSing...

Back on topic, in all my middle, high school and so far college educational career, I haven't met or studied under anything more than a fourth as many men as women. No man was honored with an educator's award during the entire duration, and most male officials were replaced with female (to say nothing of minorities replacing whites) candidates during the same duration. I was supremely upset to learn that this had much to do with affirmative action-type biases and less to do with credentials. This is the worst kind of anti-prejudice action one could possibly take, as it's nothing short of replacing one prejudice with another.

[Vagabond]

I don't know the details, but there are other branches. The Marines are among the hardiest and most hard-core of the branches. And generally not known for their intelligence... as a friend once said "The few, the proud, ... the chumps".
Mostly because they're the first into any dangerous area. Please note, I do have full respect for them... they're just... ummm... special.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

I don't know the details, but there are other branches. The Marines are among the hardiest and most hard-core of the branches. And generally not known for their intelligence... as a friend once said "The few, the proud, ... the chumps".
Mostly because they're the first into any dangerous area. Please note, I do have full respect for them... they're just... ummm... special.

Naturally, one of the best scout leaders form my scout days was an ex-marine

Most telling to his awesomeness was his appreciation of well-told marine jokes just as the navy guy appreciated similarly refined navy jokes. He especialy liked all the ones I stole from Shamus Kennedy, including the likes of the MARINE acronym: Muscles Are Required, Intelligence Not Essential...

Unfortunately, the only other recruiter that was reliably available was Air Force, but I know for a fact I'm not cut out for that

[Vagabond]

Air Force? The Civilians in Uniform? They're an okay lot. Get treated a lot better. A LOT of politics go on, DO NOT become an SP (Cop), and generally nicer facilities and posts.
Unfortunately for you they have recently introduced a PT test. Yes. They have to be able to run 1.5 miles and do push-ups and sit-up for 90 seconds. And their abdomens get taped to make sure they're not fat.

[telecom_goddess]

Going back to the original post...no those points are NOT valid. In my little group at work...In the daytime I am the only female. With 4 guys. I'm more organized than they are, I show up earlier than they do, call out waaaaaaaaay less often than they do (because of kids and "i'm sick" and "my car broke down" bs) I'm faster and more efficient than they are, etc etc. I think we basically get paid the same as far as I know though which is something. Although I think I should be paid more cause I've been at this particular job longer than any of them.