The obesity 'pandemic'

[DrFaroohk]

That tax argument is bullshit. I'm a disgusting fatty AND a smoker and I pay plenty of taxes - just look at a pack of smokes! Depending on where you live the taxes can get pretty high. Where I live the tax itself is more than the actual cost of cigarettes. Lot of junkfoods are taxed as well. And me eating at mcdonalds makes sure they have business. Business is good, they hire people. That guy has a job, and works, and pays taxes too. Now we got two people paying taxes.

[ladyneeva]

That was almost weirdly offensive. You aren't born morbidly obese ( barring crazy rare medical disorders ). You're born gay on the other hand. Like it or not, being overweight is typically the result of lifestyle decisions. Being gay isn't, despite what the homophobe nutjobs you speak of say.

Did you read either of the links I posted? Because both of them were about studies that show that there may very well be a stronger case for genetics having a stronger influence on obesity than diet does.

Of course, homophobe nutjobs don't believe that people are born gay either. Which... was really kind of my point. And as far as offensive goes...

I'm not talking body image perception "I'm not fat, society just says I am because of advertising" either. I mean "We may have to remove the wall of your home live on Maury Povich".

You honestly don't see how saying that is offensive to the 99.9999999% of fat people who are NOWHERE REMOTELY close to being unable to fit through a door?

Like it or not, the % of people that are grossly overweight for legitimate medical reasons is extremely low. Most of the time it is due simply to lifestyle choices. But having said that, its not justification to mock and belittle people either.

And saying "oh, just put down the pie", "your cheetos will still be there after you get done {not being lazy}", "you just don't give a crap", and "so fat they have to remove the wall of your home live on TV" are NOT examples of language chosen to mock and belittle fat people? Those are ALL comments that have been made at one time or another on this site.

As far as the derogatory crap goes... look at CS. I've seen a couple of threads where a mod needed to step in to remind people that it's not ok to mention race if race had nothing to do with why the customer sucked. But only a couple, because most people DO realize that race wasn't why their customer sucked so they leave it out.

I've never seen a mod step in and say hey wait, that customer's weight had nothing to do with why she sucked, she would have sucked just as bad if she had been skinny, so leave mention of weight and comments like "fat cow" or references to cheetos out of it. And I've seen DOZENS of threads where mention of the customer's weight was mentioned. Many of them you yourself wrote actually... do you KNOW for a fact that that caller is fat much less that he has "cheeto stained fingers"? Would that smelly weirdly dressed guy on the sky train have smelled any better if he wasn't fat or would his clothes have been any more appropriate?

As a society we do have a vested interest in being healthier as a whole, so we are reacting as a counterbalance, even if that counterbalance is horrifically misguided in some ways.

And that makes it ok? Nobody gives a damn about health, the only thing that matters is weight. I know this because you can't look at someone and know how healthy they are, you can just ASSUME that oh that person is fat they MUST be unhealthy. You basically hear "fat person" and you're picturing the ones they show without heads on TV.

Did you know that that particular body type is WAY in the minority, even among obese people? Depending on that particular person's height and weight, I have the same BMI as most of them, and if you just want to focus on the number on the scale I'm probably heavier than some of them depending how tall they are.

People read "60% of people are overweight or obese" and their gut instinct is to think how horrible it is that 60% of people look like those 'disgusting' headless blob people. So naturally they, like you, get all concerned about how horrible it is that so many people are just exactly as fat as that headless blob person.

The reality is that that 60% figure? The vast majority of those folks are only 'overweight' and only as it relates to the BMI calculation. Which was never intended to be used to define an individual anything. Using the BMI to define health is like using a scale to measure distance. It's not even the right tool for the job.

Being too skinny is no better then being too fat though. The objective is to be healthy. You can easily be that with some meat on your bones. Its when your body is labouring to support that meat that things become an issue.

There you go again. You are ASSUMING that of course, anyone who is fat is "laboring" to support their own weight. Thats not true, there are more healthy fat people than there are unhealthy ones who can't fit through doors.

Sure you'll pay lip service to the idea that maybe somewhere in the world there is a fat person who is not a disgusting blob.

But you'll still treat that person the same way you treat anyone else who isn't conventionally thin and pretty anyway. And that is with scorn and derision and the bombastic assurance that of COURSE they're just fat because "it IS a lifestyle choice!"

[Gravekeeper]

There you go again. You are ASSUMING that of course, anyone who is fat is "laboring" to support their own weight.

I didn't assume anything, you on the other hand practically wrote an editorial about it.

Did you read either of the links I posted? Because both of them were about studies that show that there may very well be a stronger case for genetics having a stronger influence on obesity than diet does.

Yes, I did, and they both statistical risk factors that increase the likelihood of adult obesity and type 2 Diabetes. So...what? I wasn;t even talking Type 2 to begin with. But there's still a direct link between Type 2 and obesity. Finding additional causes and risk factors does not negate the ones we already know about.

As for genetic disposition, well duh, yes, of course there's a link. But again it's a risk factor. Having a gene does not automatically make you 100lbs heavier. Everyone's body is different. Some people are naturally going to be bigger or smaller. Some people have faster metabolism then others. This is all a given. I'm not talking about people who have meat on their bones so to speak, or who are husky, chubby, etc. You can be any of those and still be perfectly healthy, like I said. I'm talking about being morbidly obese where it is impairing your quality of life and health.

Of course, homophobe nutjobs don't believe that people are born gay either. Which... was really kind of my point.

You are born gay. You're not born with a 22% increased chance of gay.

You honestly don't see how saying that is offensive to the 99.9999999% of fat people who are NOWHERE REMOTELY close to being unable to fit through a door?

...what? If you cannot physically get through a door because of weight, there is a problem. You are not healthy. Your quality of life is being impeded.

Many of them you yourself wrote actually... do you KNOW for a fact that that caller is fat much less that he has "cheeto stained fingers"? Would that smelly weirdly dressed guy on the sky train have smelled any better if he wasn't fat or would his clothes have been any more appropriate?

I write for comedic effect. Live with it or hit the report button. If "Cheeto stained fingers" seriously hits a nerve with you, I have no idea what to say to you beyond grow thicker skin.

And that makes it ok? Nobody gives a damn about health, the only thing that matters is weight.

Did not the exact line you quoted say "even if its horrifically misguided"?

Did you know that that particular body type is WAY in the minority, even among obese people?

Did I say it wasn't? My entire post basically summarized into "Nothing wrong with extra weight, but morbidly obese is bad as it isn't healthy"?

Using the BMI to define health is like using a scale to measure distance. It's not even the right tool for the job.

That's nice but I never even mentioned BMI.

There you go again. You are ASSUMING that of course, anyone who is fat is "laboring" to support their own weight. Thats not true, there are more healthy fat people than there are unhealthy ones who can't fit through doors.

I assumed nothing. Did you even read the line you quoted? I specifically said you can be healthy and fat. It's if your body is labouring to try and support itself you are unhealthy. I didn't say "anyone who is fat". I didn't assume anything. Stop putting words into my mouth. Its aggravating.

Sure you'll pay lip service to the idea that maybe somewhere in the world there is a fat person who is not a disgusting blob.

But you'll still treat that person the same way you treat anyone else who isn't conventionally thin and pretty anyway. And that is with scorn and derision and the bombastic assurance that of COURSE they're just fat because "it IS a lifestyle choice!"

Ok, you know what? Done being insulted for daring to use reason. You obviously only read into what I said what you wanted too, filled in the blanks with your own victimization and are now too busy arguing with the illusionary supervillain you falsely perceive me to be to bother talking to the actual me. Who, by the way, is not exactly supermodel material either.

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

Its almost like people should have self control and not eat everything that is availiable to them. A crazy concept I know.

Well the issue with that is that counteracting the self control is the constant, relentless marketing of food and advertisements and whatnot telling people to eat all the yummy stuff.

I have a fair bit of self control when I eat. I'm one of those people who can crack open a bag of cookies and only eat two. I try to go by serving size wherever possible.

It took me awhile to train myself to have the self control that I do and even now I have times where it's difficult for me to give in.

The abundance of food is only part of the problem. The lack of physical activity is the other part.

Interestingly, as with my observation that it does not take a lot of food to sustain a person, it also does not take a high level of activity to produce positive effects. 15-20 minutes of exercise a day is usually enough to make a person healthier.

[ladyneeva]

But there's still a direct link between Type 2 and obesity. Finding additional causes and risk factors does not negate the ones we already know about.

Where is this study that proves that any statistical link between type 2 diabetes and obesity is one where obesity CAUSES type 2 diabetes? Sure there are dozens and dozens of studies that say "type 2 diabetics are frequently obese"... but could that not just as easily be because type 2 diabetes causes weight gain?

You are born gay. You're not born with a 22% increased chance of gay.

And that is neither here nor there. I am not saying that being fat and being gay are the same exact thing.

What I said was that people TREAT them the same. Both groups are assigning a moral value to someone else's life and body, a life and body that in absolutely NO WAY has any affect on their lives and bodies, and then use their opinion of our moral shortfalls or outright deviancy as justification for saying and doing any damn thing they want to us. And the really clever ones claim they're just big funny jokers and if we don't find it hilarious to be repeatedly insulted, why then of course it means that in addition to being whatever negative stereotype they've pegged on us, we don't have a sense of humor either.

I write for comedic effect. Live with it or hit the report button. If "Cheeto stained fingers" seriously hits a nerve with you, I have no idea what to say to you beyond grow thicker skin.

Exhibit one.

Did I say it wasn't? My entire post basically summarized into "Nothing wrong with extra weight, but morbidly obese is bad as it isn't healthy"? That's nice but I never even mentioned BMI.

You realize obese and morbidly obese are medical terms right? And the only way they are measured is using BMI, because that is the only 'tool' that diagnoses someone as obese or morbidly obese. And again, you are making an assumption where you have absolutely no facts to back it up... you do not know if any given obese individual is healthy or not. All you know is that their physical appearance does not measure up to your standards of what YOU think a healthy person looks like.

Honestly, most people don't even know what an obese person looks like. There is a BMI slideshow around somewhere with photos of people of various sizes and body types and what medical term their weight/height ratio puts them at. Except for a few obvious trolls who think anyone over a size 0 is a disgusting fatty, the general response to it is usually that they wouldn't have pegged a lot of those people as "obese".

Interestingly, as with my observation that it does not take a lot of food to sustain a person, it also does not take a high level of activity to produce positive effects. 15-20 minutes of exercise a day is usually enough to make a person healthier.

The thing is, just because something works for YOU does not mean it will work for everyone, yet everyone and their cousin feels compelled to say that oh, it is just exactly this easy, for everyone, all the time. Usually in this tone that implies that we either must pity the poor fatties who just are too slow to realize the truth, or that we must hate them for being too lazy to do this one completely reasonable thing that works practically every time. And naturally when someone is still fat in spite of following your directives, it is entirely their own fault and they must have screwed it up somehow. It can't possibly be the method thats at fault.

[Gravekeeper]

Well the issue with that is that counteracting the self control is the constant, relentless marketing of food and advertisements and whatnot telling people to eat all the yummy stuff.

Funny thing about marketing and advertising is that, well, its marketing and advertising. If you're incapable of recognizing it as such, you still have the power to ignore it or change the channel. Besides it not like any of this supposed yummy stuff ever actually looks remotely like it what it does on TV. -.-

Where is this study that proves that any statistical link between type 2 diabetes and obesity is one where obesity CAUSES type 2 diabetes?

Its a fact that the prevalence of Type 2 diabetes has increased parallel to obesity rates. Chronic obesity can lead to insulin resistance, which of course leads to Type 2 Diabetes. It is true that metabolic changes brought on by Type 2 can lead to obesity as well ( Catch 22 ). However, diet and weight are still huge factors which was determined by simply studying members of the same genetic pool that had immigrated to western nations vs those that remained in the country of origin ( Hint: They gained more weight and thus developed Type 2 more often ).

You realize obese and morbidly obese are medical terms right?

Then do tell me what the technically term I'm suppose to be using here is rather then nitpicking the semantics of every term I use so you can spiral off into a new tangent?

The thing is, just because something works for YOU does not mean it will work for everyone, yet everyone and their cousin feels compelled to say that oh, it is just exactly this easy, for everyone, all the time.

No shit. Did I say anywhere that it was easy for everyone? No? Did I even say it was easy for me? No? So I must again restate my previous observation: Who exactly are you arguing with? It's clearly not me.

It can't possibly be the method thats at fault.

Different things obviously work better for different people with different bodies. But its not everyone else's responsibility to find out what those things are for you. Its your body, your responsibility. If you aren't happy about it, do something about it don't whine that the rest of humanity should change itself as a whole just to make you feel better. Do something to make yourself feel better and thank whatever deity you believe in that of all things about your appearance you may not like at least you were handed the one you have the power to change.

[Nyoibo]

I'm just going to throw this stuff out there, so bare with me.

The BLI is not the only tool used to classify obesity, waist/hip ratio and body fat percentage are also, and when combined help eliminate the shortcomings of the BMI.

Being overweight is not healthy, ahrp on all you want that you can be healthy and overweight but no, you can have good fitness yess but fitness and health are two different things, being overweight puts more strain on the heart, it has to pump blood over an increased distance and more pressure is put on the veins and arteries, it puts increased strain on joints leading to osteoarthritis.

Every overweight person I've known, my self included, is overweight because of two things, they eat too much and they don't get enough physical activity.

(speaking of overeating, foods here, will finish later )

[Vagabond]

Here's another twist I'll throw at you all:
Let's say I am 6'2", 197 lbs. I tape (poor cousin/brother of the Body Mass Index) of around 20% body fat. By looking at me, you could assume I'm healthy and fit.
And you'd be sooo very wrong.
My BP is consistently 150 over 100, I smoke, I drink and I exercise rarely (Carrying a case of beer doesn't count?).

So, while I look fit, can easily fit into the tiniest of airline seats, but am terribly unhealthy.

And as far as the Obesity thing - At least as far as the US state of Georgia, while they do have some big boys (and girls), some can't help it, but Georgia does have a tendency to fry everything. They'll fry steak, chicken, potatoes, hell, they'd fry up a Coca-Cola if they could figure out how... and that contributes to the obesity problem.

[Gravekeeper]

being overweight puts more strain on the heart, it has to pump blood over an increased distance and more pressure is put on the veins and arteries, it puts increased strain on joints leading to osteoarthritis.

Thank you, that is precisely what I meant when I said "labouring". That there is physical strain on the body specifically because of excess weight.

[smileyeagle1021]

they'd fry up a Coca-Cola if they could figure out how... and that contributes to the obesity problem.

sadly, I think they have...

One thing I'm surprised no one has mentioned is the fact that for thousands of years we barely got enough food to survive and we hardwired ourselves to eat whenever we got the chance to insure that we had enough calories stored... fast forward to modern times with diesel powered farm equipment and chemical fertilizer, food storage and transportation networks... we can get food whenever we want and still feel the need to eat whenever possible due to that instinct to store up for the upcoming lean times (which now may never come).

As far as the diabetes argument... I've known people with (type 2) diabetes who by the BMI were perfectly healthy and people who went to their graves diabetes free who by the BMI should have had every disease there was.
Weight may be a factor, but it is not the soul determinant.

[Boozy]

I've never seen a mod step in and say hey wait, that customer's weight had nothing to do with why she sucked, she would have sucked just as bad if she had been skinny, so leave mention of weight and comments like "fat cow" or references to cheetos out of it. And I've seen DOZENS of threads where mention of the customer's weight was mentioned.

I can think of at least half a dozen instances off hand where we have stepped in and removed offensive and irrelevant references to weight at CS. It is our policy to do so when such comments are degrading.

When you see a post that bothers you, do you report it?

Too many members assume that we are omniscient and are aware of every single post. We aren't. We expect our members to contribute to the community by reporting the posts they find bothersome.

You can argue that society in general is unfair and biased, but please don't use CS as an example -- especially when you haven't bothered to do anything about it yourself.

[Greenday]

And as far as the Obesity thing - At least as far as the US state of Georgia, while they do have some big boys (and girls), some can't help it, but Georgia does have a tendency to fry everything. They'll fry steak, chicken, potatoes, hell, they'd fry up a Coca-Cola if they could figure out how... and that contributes to the obesity problem.

Who's fault is that though? No one is forcing people to eat everything fried.

[Vagabond]

No one is forcing them to eat it, that it true, that's why I said it only contributes to the problem.
Also, in Georgia, while I was there, about 1/2 the menu at any given place is fried something or other. Only notable exceptions would be Pizza places, Olive Garden (& the like), Asian food places, and some burger joints. However, while those places aren't known for fried foods, they do have some, I'm sure.
Also, in Georgia, it's slightly cultural - Frying up everything. Not unlike having rice and a seafood item would be considered culturally Asian/Japanese.
If I think of 'Southern' food, I tend to think of fried Okra, fried chicken, fried squash... etc. Jambalaya, which is fried sausage and seasonings.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I will also throw in the fact that not every single person who's overweight is that way due to having eaten all the pies. There is an eating disorder called compulsive eating disorder which causes people to be overweight; it's basically a vicious cycle of bingeing on food, then dieting, then bingeing again. I suffered from it all thru my teens and it took a long time to break the cycle, lose the weight and feel good about myself again.

However, there are far too many people who are unsympathetic about CED. They'll sympathise with a skeletal anorexic (incidentally, that's an example of a skinny person putting a strain on the health service) but will just say something like, "Then stop eating, dammit," if someone has CED. It's not that simple. That's like telling an anorexic to "Eat more, dammit".

[AdminAssistant]

hell, they'd fry up a Coca-Cola if they could figure out how... and that contributes to the obesity problem.

I have heard of fried Dr. Pepper in Texas.

Also, in Georgia, it's slightly cultural - Frying up everything. Not unlike having rice and a seafood item would be considered culturally Asian/Japanese.
If I think of 'Southern' food, I tend to think of fried Okra, fried chicken, fried squash... etc. Jambalaya, which is fried sausage and seasonings.

While fried food is a staple of the American South, it is a stereotype to think that everything we eat is fried. There are lots of vegetables and greens, lots of pork - fresh homemade food. If you see 'Southern' restaurants in, say, Atlanta that fry anything and everything, they are trying desperately to be 'Southern' and failing. That's not the food I grew up on. I actually didn't gain weight until I moved out of my parents' house and was eating processed junk food instead of Mama's cooking.