Banning Bad Tippers?

[blas87]

If we go along your lines of thinking, then people like you are exactly WHY I quit serving after only a few weeks.

Some people couldn't even give a fucking dollar, over stuff that wasn't even my fault. The cook still got a decent hourly wage even if he fucked up the order or it took forever, but I got stiffed and wasted an hour or more on that table making $2.13 an hour and NO TIP.

[Rageaholic]

My opinion is that the servers should be paid atleast minimum wage like everyone else and not rely on tips. 2 dollars an hour? Are you fucking kidding me? What they are doing is putting the servers in a position where the customers decide how much they make. No one should be forced to work for someone who doesn't pay them. If they don't want to serve a cheapo, then why the hell should they have to?

I can see why the customer would be pissed about being banned though. Afterall, it's not like she didn't pay for her meal. It's just that the servers don't get paid squat from their employers so they rely on the grace of the customer to make a decent wage. How can I fault the servers for not willing to work for so little? Because that's basically what this is.

[lupo pazzesco]

One thing that has me on the side of the restaurant, is the fact the woman seems to be painting herself as the wounded party, but I have to ask, in the cynical way I have, what else has she done that earned the banning and the staff to refuse to serve her. Somehow, I don't think it's because she's a bad tipper, or rather JUST because she's a bad tipper. If an entire staff, servers and chefs refuse to serve a customer, I think there's something more going on there.

I refused to serve a party of 5 once, on the grounds that when they were in there before, yes, the didn't tip. But this was after i served them, got hit on, and then complained about. They also complained about EVERYTHING, the food was too hot, the bread was too cold, their drinks didn't have enough ice, the salad had too little dressing, oh wait, now it's too much dressing, the forks have water spots on them, the syrup jar isn't full enough, you only brought me 2 bowls of creamers for my coffee when I wanted 2.5 bowls, etc, etc, etc. Yet they continued to come back to where I worked because it was "one of their favorite places to go!"

I'm thinking there's more to the story, like I've stated before, and props to the owner both for banning, and for not sinking to the woman's level and slinging more dirt her way, though she may deserve it. he simply said that the servers and chefs refused to serve her, so he felt it best she not go to his restaurant anymore.

[Giggle Goose]

Kiwi makes an excellent point. While serving may not be "the hardest job in the world," I think you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who would give the same level of service if they couldn't walk away from their shift with a wad of cash in their pocket.

If this lady wanted to just pay for FOOD, then she can get carry-out. Sounds harsh, but she's just sitting there wasting space that someone who will pay for good service could be sitting.

[muses_nightmare]

See, I do tip, that's the thing. I don't disagree with the idea of tipping, I disagree with the idea of being obligated to tip. I don't make a big deal about having to tip while I'm in a restaurant, and I'm actually quite happy to tip quite well when I get excellent service.

I will refuse to tip if a server asks or is just plain bad. Asking is the worst of the two, it will automatically get you stiffed and I will talk to a manager. This has only ever happened once thank goodness. I'm sure there aren't many people who would disagree that asking outright for a tip is rude and bad policy.

I always gave the best service I could in the jobs I've done, and all but one were non-tipped and the most I made at any of them was $11/h, which when living in Vancouver isn't as much as it may sound, everything in the states seems to be cheaper (at least in Washington it is).

Saying that servers give the best service out of any customer service profession is not fair to those of us who have worked other jobs and have done their best to help customers because that is what we're PAID to do.

Also in BC servers make at least $8/h. I've had to live on just the $8/h before, which sucks, but it can be done. Many servers make more than that, hell some make $12+ which is more than I made as a dealer (which I think is a much harder job, but I digress).

[BlaqueKatt]

Nobody should ever have to tip. If anything tipping should be gone away with and servers should be paid a livable wage.

would you(and anyone else that gives the whargarble of "servers should be paid a living wage...whargarble") be willing to pay almost triple what you do now for food?

average overhead operating costs for restaurants:

Food 25%
Total labor 20%(at current $2.35/hr)
Management 10%
Rent 10%
Supplies 8 %
Maintenance 5%
Marketing 5%
insurance/legal 5%
waste managegement/pest control 2%
utilities 6%

if you raise the labor cost to minimum wage it triples to 60% which is more than double the cost of food.

so that $12 dinner at TGI fridays now costs $36 due to increased labor costs the restaurant incurs, are you willing to pay that?

average cost of a 3 course meal with wine for one person in the US-$25
average cost of a 3 course meal with wine for one person in France-$54

see the difference-hint french serves don't rely on tips...they make a "living wage"


we'll even do some math here

server a makes minimum wage-$7.75/hr
server b makes the standard 2.35

both servers work an 8 hour shift and serve 20 tables(2.5 tables per hour most servers have more than that)
A=$62
B=$18.80

a-no tips for serving 20 tables
b-$5 tip per table served=$100 in tips

server a's actual wage=$7.75/hr
server b's actual wage=$14.85/hr

who's better off and making a "living wage"?

[muses_nightmare]

*sigh* Ok, Can someone explain to me how if you raise the wage in the states to minimum for servers it would even remotely raise the price of anything?

Servers in Canada make at least minimum wage, and the lowest minimum wage is $8/h (here in BC -_-), the meals at say TGI Fridays were not more than say $10-$15 ( though we don't have one of those anymore). The whole livable wage thing has been going on here for a long time, just in general, people want a raise in minimum wage but that's another issue.

I've said many times here I don't disagree with the practice of tipping, it's the obligation that I have a problem with. I'm more than willing to tip for excellent service, because it's supposed to be a reward, not a fee. If servers are working for their tips then what's the problem with that? Why should just so-so service be rewarded?

[DrFaroohk]

Those servers who get paid ten bucks an hour plus tips are rare, at least where I come from. Most of the time they're paid 2-3 dollars and hour plus tips.

There's the notion that the restaurant must make up the difference between minimum wage and the tips. That's a nice idea, but it won't last. If you have a waiter who can't even pull minimum he won't be there long.

So by doing away with tips, the restaurant just has to pay the employee more. So your meal costs more. It's probably about the same as what it does now, but instead of a 20 dollar meal and a 4 dollar tip, it's just a 24 dollar meal.

[elsporko]

If a server won't give good service without being bribed in the form of a tip then they should be fired and the job given to sombody with a work ethic. I don't tip if the service is bad. Sometimes even when service is passable I won't tip or give a small tip just to keep the server from getting a big head.

[muses_nightmare]

Yeah the servers that get paid $10+ are not that rare here. I've known people to make $12/h as a server, plus tips. Which if it wasn't an obligation to get tips, good for them, but since it is, even mediocre service gets a 15% tip or whatever the average is. Tipping says nothing about service if it's mandatory, since a server will expect a tip regardless of service, I've had shitty servers give me a dirty look because I didn't tip them, sorry you didn't earn it. And yes, I've walked out without tipping before. I have no sympathy for those "poor servers" who get stiffed, because usually, there's a reason for it. (sometimes you just get people who don't tip sure, but generally people use high tips or no tips to indicate excellent or shitty service). Don't bitch if you can't be bothered to do your job properly. Don't like your pay? Why did you apply to be a server then?

[smileyeagle1021]

. Don't like your pay? Why did you apply to be a server then?

To be blunt, have you seen the unemployment numbers to the south of you?
We have a nationwide average of 10%, some places are over 20%... you apply every place you can find and praise God when even the shitty place calls back to offer you a job.

[powerboy]

I don't think people should be banned for not tipping. IT IS OPTIONAL.

Exactly, they should not be banned. I have walked out without giving a tip plenty of times. Other times, I have tipped.

[muses_nightmare]

Yes, but people have been working as servers for a long time. And they've been bitching about non-tippers for just as long. If things are so desperate they shouldn't be bitching about having a job then, especially one where customers have to pay you because your employers are too cheap to.

I'm completely aware of the economic situation, hell things aren't great here either, maybe not as bad, but believe it or not part-time jobs are damn near impossible to find.

[KnitShoni]

I just wonder how many people realize the menu price they pay is for the meal itself, whereas the tip, while optional, is pretty much for having someone do something you don't want to do at home.

[muses_nightmare]

Uhm, as far as I'm concerned the meal price is what makes the restaurant money, therefore is what pays the servers, hence they make money from what I'm paying for my meal, therefore I am paying for service by paying for my meal. It's not complicated logic.

Tips are extra, always.