Banning Bad Tippers?

[KnitShoni]

Well, except you would pay the same price if you ordered the meal to go. And, whether you believe it or not, paying servers minimum wage WILL raise the menu prices, which would lose restaurants business because people aren't going to want to pay the higher prices.

[muses_nightmare]

paying servers minimum wage WILL raise the menu prices, which would lose restaurants business because people aren't going to want to pay the higher prices.

Then explain to me how Canada can pay servers minimum wage and still have affordable restaurants? Seriously, I keep hearing this, but there are so many places that pay at least minimum, and that the food is affordable if not cheap.

Take Denny's for example, $7-15 CAD is not expensive for a restaurant meal is it? I can't see American prices being so much different, in a restaurant anyway, though, things in the states can sometimes be a lot cheaper, but I haven't really noticed it in many restaurants, given there are a lot of restaurants that aren't available in Canada either.

Also, if all restaurants had to raise their prices then people wouldn't have a choice besides eating at home, and really, is everyone going to give up eating out because the price of food went up a couple of bucks?

I seriously can't believe people are arguing against paying someone minimum wage , the logic of it eludes me.

[Boozy]

Then explain to me how Canada can pay servers minimum wage and still have affordable restaurants? Seriously, I keep hearing this, but there are so many places that pay at least minimum, and that the food is affordable if not cheap.

I wish you'd stop using "Canada" as an example, because Ontario and Quebec do not pay their servers minimum wage. Those two provinces comprise nearly two-thirds the population of Canada.

I don't want people thinking they don't need to tip in Ontario because the servers are being paid a fair wage. They are not.

[MaseMan]

Those of you demanding all servers be paid minimum wage, should state that you're willing to pay much more for your food up front. That is why servers in the US are paid under minimum wage...so that restaurants can charge less for food and make themselves more appealing to customers.

Really, does it kill you to throw someone a couple bucks if they give you fair service? Some of you sound like real cheapskates, to be blunt.

[KnitShoni]

I wish you'd stop using "Canada" as an example, because Ontario and Quebec do not pay their servers minimum wage. Those two provinces comprise nearly two-thirds the population of Canada.

I don't want people thinking they don't need to tip in Ontario because the servers are being paid a fair wage. They are not.

Thank you.

[KnitShoni]

Then explain to me how Canada can pay servers minimum wage and still have affordable restaurants? Seriously, I keep hearing this, but there are so many places that pay at least minimum, and that the food is affordable if not cheap.

Take Denny's for example, $7-15 CAD is not expensive for a restaurant meal is it? I can't see American prices being so much different, in a restaurant anyway, though, things in the states can sometimes be a lot cheaper, but I haven't really noticed it in many restaurants, given there are a lot of restaurants that aren't available in Canada either.

Also, if all restaurants had to raise their prices then people wouldn't have a choice besides eating at home, and really, is everyone going to give up eating out because the price of food went up a couple of bucks?

I seriously can't believe people are arguing against paying someone minimum wage , the logic of it eludes me.

@the bolded: Who said that? I don't remember reading it.

Now, as far as the rest of your post. You seriously don't see how menu prices could rise because the wages of the servers is raised more than $4-$5 per hour per server? That will raise prices more than a couple of bucks.

[Anthony K. S.]

I remember seeing a rather heated argument about tipping on Customers Suck! a while back. When it was pointed out that servers are typically paid much less than minimum wage, one person responded :

"All right, then, I'm going to send you a bill. I don't think I'm being paid enough at my job, so I think you should send me money to make up for it.

. . .

Your job doesn't pay you enough? Find a better paying one. Don't expect me to make up the difference."


. . . Just completely misses the point.

Folks, when people point out that servers are being paid less than minimum wage, they are not saying that customers should compensate servers for their low salaries.

The point they are trying to make is that paying your bill at the end of the night only constitutes paying for the meal itself, not for the service.

Servers are paid a low wage, and are expected to get the rest of their money through tips. That means that paying your bill only constitutes, at most, partly paying for the service. The tip constitutes paying for the rest.

I suppose that the theory is that giving customers the power to decide how much money the server gets for his/her service would encourage servers to give the very best service they can, and reward the ones who do.

So when customers refuse to tip, they are, essentially, refusing to pay for a service that they have received.


Whether anybody here likes it or not, the reality is that tipping has become part of the cost of eating out.

A tip is no longer an "extra" given for good performance. It is now payment for services rendered.

You may not think that it should be that way . . . But it is, whether you think it should or not.

Unfortunately, there are a fair number of people (including some on Customers Suck! and here on Fratching) who just seem to be stuck on "Tipping is ALWAYS an extra."

They apparently believe that because they think it should be that way, that it actually is that way.

But that's not how life works. It would be wonderful if it was.

[muses_nightmare]

Sorry I usually amend my Canada statements by saying BC (because honestly I wasn't sure about the rest of Canada, do they pay servers $2/h in Ontario? just curious?), I must have mistyped that time. Because I know for a fact that BC servers make at least minimum. Even if our minimum is the lowest in the country ($8/h) Still doesn't change the fact that here in BC we don't pay astronomical prices for our restaurant meals.

And even if it did mean a raise in prices, you people are bitching about paying servers minimum wage because you don't want to pay an extra few dollars on a meal? What is wrong with you?

I still feel that tipping is optional, regardless of how companies choose to pay their employees. Besides if they're giving good service I have no problem with tipping, i'm happy to in fact, I just don't want to be given dirty looks when I say I don't reward bad service, sorry that extra 10-25% stays in my pocket when you suck at your job.

[Boozy]

Sorry I usually amend my Canada statements by saying BC (because honestly I wasn't sure about the rest of Canada, do they pay servers $2/h in Ontario? just curious?)

No, I believe they make about $2 less per hour than minimum wage. So it's more like $8 an hour.... but keep in mind that the minimum wage is going up to $10 an hour here in Ontario due to cost of living. $8 an hour is not considered a living wage in urban Ontario.

[IDrinkaRum]

Look, when I'm too lazy to cook for myself and I take the family out for dinner, I expect to pay the person who is doing my work. (i.e., the cooking, the cleaning, the serving of food to my family). If that means, I'm tipping them $5-$10 on the meal, then so be it. I don't mind and I don't care. It beats me standing in the heat of the kitchen, with my back literally killing me, and trying to make a dinner that pleases 3 different people.

If you don't tip, then don't eat out. These people are doing what you don't want to. You (meaning the customer) should pay them accordingly.

[KnitShoni]

And even if it did mean a raise in prices, you people are bitching about paying servers minimum wage because you don't want to pay an extra few dollars on a meal? What is wrong with you?

Where are you getting this from?!? No one said that! We're just explaining WHY servers don't make minimum wage. No one EVER said they SHOULDN'T.

[smileyeagle1021]

I just don't want to be given dirty looks when I say I don't reward bad service, sorry that extra 10-25% stays in my pocket when you suck at your job.

I agree with you... bad service does not get a tip, good service gets a good tip... the debate though is about the people who refuse to tip even for good service.

[KnitShoni]

I agree with you... bad service does not get a tip, good service gets a good tip... the debate though is about the people who refuse to tip even for good service.

Exactly. I worked in the restaurant industry for 6 years. I don't tip for bad service (meaning stuff that's the server's fault). But, the servers who do their jobs deserve to get paid for it. The woman in the original story was barely doing that, if she was at all.

[muses_nightmare]

$8 an hour is not considered a living wage in urban Ontario.

Yeah, it's also not a living wage here in Vancouver, people have been trying to get it raised to $10/h for a long while now. but that's a whole other discussion.

Where are you getting this from?!? No one said that! We're just explaining WHY servers don't make minimum wage. No one EVER said they SHOULDN'T.

Here:

Those of you demanding all servers be paid minimum wage, should state that you're willing to pay much more for your food up front. That is why servers in the US are paid under minimum wage...so that restaurants can charge less for food and make themselves more appealing to customers.

I still don't think someone should be banned for not tipping, even for good service. Besides, who says she got good service? Maybe the staff were rude to her from the first time she didn't tip and it snowballed from there? (if that was the case her choice in restaurant is questionable, but still) Not saying this is what happened, but I'm sure it has happened at some point.

I also think that other jobs should be allowed to be tipped, seriously, when working in some of my other jobs it would have been nice to not be run off of my feet for an hour or more for customers while being paid $8-9/h. If customers were allowed to and knew they could tip it would have been nice to have the extra money. As it is many places don't even allow employees to take tips, which I think is stupid.

[elsporko]

I'd rather not have to tip every store I go to just to get service I should be getting anyways.