Banning Bad Tippers?

[muses_nightmare]

I agree, this is the roadblock I find in these arguments.

Maybe it's because where I live servers are paid minimum wage or higher, so I don't see why I should have to pay them any more than they are making as they don't make any less than I ever have at non-tipped jobs, nor did they do any more work, different sure, but not more.

I have no problem paying for service in places where I know the servers are paid way less than any other customer service job, what I have an issue with, and I don't think I've clearly stated it, is the idea that in places where servers make the same as any other service job tips are extra money. They are greatly appreciated (I know I appreciated them when I was a dealer), but they shouldn't be considered a necessary part of the wage like they are in places where servers aren't paid minimum like the rest of service jobs.

I hope that clarifies my stand on at least part of the issue.

[Racket_Man]

I don't think people should be banned for not tipping. IT IS OPTIONAL.

*disclaimer: bit of a rant here, this is something of a touchy subject for me, as I'm sure it is for many people*


As for servers not serving a customer because they don't tip, I think that's BS you're there to do a job, you do it regardless of the customer. Even working as a dealer I would never have even considered turning someone away because they didn't tip, but servers seem to think they have this right. Sure you can refuse service, but within reason. If a customer is being rude about not tipping, as in taunting you, or just being belligerent or rude, sure refuse service, but someone who just doesn't see fit to tip, or even someone that finds out after they've gotten their bill that they can't afford to tip shouldn't be shunned. It's stupid.

*I do tip, only because I feel obligated to, it doesn't mean I agree with the practice. I also think 10% is a perfectly reasonable tip for average service.

unfortuneately tipping HAS become so ingrained in the American culture that it almost seems as if it is a requirement but the government let it happen and business went happily along.

and as for servers earning at least minimum where you, are, that my friend is the exception to the rule NOT the rule. most restraunts pay their servers the bare minimum.


so then it is OK for the employer and the government to only require that servers be paid a mere pitance (as in waaaaaay below minimum wage as in $2.15per hour and that wage has not been raised since 1991) because they make tips.

and it is OK for the government (the IRS to be specific) to require a certain percentage of sales ( now it seems to be around 15%) be reported as tips requardless if that % is actually made or not. there are so many tax court cases to prove this fact. what the IRS says you make (even if you did not) you will have to pay reguardless unless you fight and that my friends takes cash and time and legal proceedings and appeals and more BS than most of us are willing to endure.

Do you regularly receive a paycheck that has ******** VOID********** written all over it and the check amount is $00.00 because the taxes taken out exceed your total hourly base pay?????

at any level I guess it is OK for a the employer or the government or a customer to "steal" from a server or delivery driver. sometimes 1 or 2 tables or deliveries can make or break someones night that way (think large orders or deliveries that straight stiff).

Plus with servers in a lot of places, they have to tip out a certain % (yes it is a small % but...) to the bartender, the hostess, the busperson, etc. you are required to report ALL of those tips not what you walk out the door with

in my case, being a delivery driver, according to the DOL's OWN website my tips CAN NOT be used to cover unrembursed business expenses ie. car maintenance, insurance (some of us have commercial or business insurance that is at least twice what a normal driver pays), repairs, depreciation, gas, iol changes tire, brakes, etc. all expenses related to my job (about 80% of the miles on my car are JOB related). for all of that I get, on average, reembursed 20 - 23 CENTS per mile not the IRS standard of around 50 cents per mile.

but will the DOL or the IRS do anything???? NO all they want is THEIR money and the companies want all THEIR profit and the peons are left to hang in the wind.

here are a couple of links detailing just ONE person the IRS chose to deal with

http://consumerist.com/2009/12/irs-t...-be-lying.html

http://bedbuffalos.blogspot.com/2009...l-porcaro.html

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=151093.0

here is one from 8 years ago (a partial article) where the Supream Court of the US has allowed the IRS to "esitmate" tips earned based on CC receipts. this case started in the early 1990's when the IRS "estimated: the servers at this establishment were "under-reporting" their tips based solely on CC receipts

http://articles.sfgate.com/2002-06-1...r-d-italia-irs

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-87432629.html

more detailed article
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/...in506867.shtml

this case has been around for almost 20 years. I also guess the IRS conviently "forgot" about tip sharing arrangements that a lot of resaurants have.

if you have high CC tips but low cash tips you are OFFICIALLY screwed and the IRS will come to you and slap you with a past tax due bill + interest + penalities + processing fees + whatever the hell else they want to add on and there is little you can do

[muses_nightmare]

You know what, I'm completely aware of all of that. Like I said my problem is the expectation of servers who do make more than minimum that they should be tipped, not of the ones that literally need tips to survive. It's those claiming that servers where I live need tips to survive, sorry but if I've lived off of $8/h you can too, if not, find another job.

I never once said that I don't tip, or that I tip very low, I actually usually tip about 15 -20% because most of the time I get pretty good service, it is only when a server doesn't do their job right that I give less than that, if they are having such a hard time doing their job they shouldn't be in that field of work, because if they're doing such a bad job that I'm giving them a low or no tip, they aren't going to be making money at their job anyway, I don't have super high expectations either. Hell if I was allowed to tip some of the people that serve me at other non-tipped jobs I would, sometimes they deserve it more than some of the restaurant servers I've dealt with.

[KnitShoni]

You know what, I'm completely aware of all of that. Like I said my problem is the expectation of servers who do make more than minimum that they should be tipped, not of the ones that literally need tips to survive. It's those claiming that servers where I live need tips to survive, sorry but if I've lived off of $8/h you can too, if not, find another job.

I never once said that I don't tip, or that I tip very low, I actually usually tip about 15 -20% because most of the time I get pretty good service, it is only when a server doesn't do their job right that I give less than that, if they are having such a hard time doing their job they shouldn't be in that field of work, because if they're doing such a bad job that I'm giving them a low or no tip, they aren't going to be making money at their job anyway, I don't have super high expectations either. Hell if I was allowed to tip some of the people that serve me at other non-tipped jobs I would, sometimes they deserve it more than some of the restaurant servers I've dealt with.

And this, I agree with completely.